Question about tube equipment

[c9-2001]

ok.. if i was to have a tube mic, tube preamp, and a tube compressor/gate/limiter... would that be to much? i'm just wondering..
most ppl i know with Tube mics usually have class A preamps and nice compressors.. sometimes tube compressors...

my question is, is that to much "Tube processing" through the signal chain?

[chessrock]

Depends on several factors:

* The brand/model of tube gear (high-quality or crapola toob du jor?)

* The type of design it employs and what role the tubes play in the signal path or gain stage (starved plate? hybrid? transformer input/output?).

* The kind of tubes it uses (12AX? 12AU? etc etc). Also, what brand? (Sovtek? Svetlana? Tung Sol? Telefunken?)

* Are transformers employed? If so, what kind? (Jensen?)

Most importantly, how are you using it? Are the tubes being driven hard or soft? Are they being used to impart a desired coloration to the sound, or are they merely performing their intended function?

What a lot of people don't realize is that most true quality tube gear is noted more for it's transparency, due to the lack of distortions otherwise imparted by transistors in solid state gear. The distortions that a lot of us find pleasing in some tube gear is mostly a result of guys like Hendrix, who figured out how cool it sounded when driving the hell out of tube amplifiers. Designers of other types gear followed suit by utilizing tube designs to achieve similar warm colorations for other applications.

So the question really depends on whether the tube gear you're using is intended to act as a fuzz box (ART?), subtle coloration (Peavey VMP2?) or if it was designed to deliver clean, full-soudning gain and/or dynamics processing (Avalon? Manley?). If all of the tubes in your signal chain were designed with the former in mind, then I think the answer would be pretty obvious that you might run in to tube fatigue, unless that is a special effect you are after.

[Recording Engineer]

I voted that I really wouldn't worry about it. That is UNLESS it doesn't souned good; just like you would any other time, regardless of what's being used inside the gear.

Tube designs CAN be more "clean and transparent" than solid state designs. And vise-versa. It's all in the design and components.

So why wouldn't the same thing apply to: mic > preamp > compressor?

[esactun]

Another thing to keep in mind: Studios used to be ALL tube equipment!

[Giganova]

why tubes?? It's an old MYTH that tube mics/amps/whatever sound better than modern integrated circuit devices. It's also a MYTH that tubes sound "warmer"!

> another thing to keep in mind:
>Studios used to be ALL tube equipment!

sure -- coz at the time they bought their stuff there was nothing else available! They keep their equipment for decades due to budget reasons, that's why so many studios still use their tubes.

[c9-2001]

well its not really a myth.. compare a mic like a AKG solid tube or a SP T3, or get better and jump to something like a m149... they sound "WARMER" than other good mics..like ksm44's,tlm103.. though a u87 can hang with them all day...

the equipment wasn't gonna be cheap.. preamps and compressor are Mindprint, and the mics would be a u87ai, T3 and a PPA ld2ube(trust me it sounds great)

[chessrock]

Originally posted by Giganova
sure -- coz at the time they bought their stuff there was nothing else available!

Neve . . . API . . . Trident . . .

[Giganova]

I'm not saying that tubes don't sound good -- they sound awesome! I think, however, that today's solid state transistor technology is doing an equally good job. No reason to be nostalgic IMHO.

(even though I'd loooove to see how a "tube-amplyfied" version of the Space Shuttle would perform in space and how it'll look like. Just imagine 10,000 glowing tubes in the cockpit! ;-)

[Bigus Dickus]

Many Russian military airplanes still in service use tubes for radar and navigation equipment.

[Giganova]

yeah -- and how do these vintage Russian planes sound like??? *can't be serious today, I know ...*

[Richard Monroe]

This is one of the biggest red herrings in pro audio. Good equipment sounds good, and bad equipment sounds bad, and whether it has a tube in it or not is rarely the determining factor. Get the best equipment you can afford and ignore the tube factor. That said, good tubes sound better than bad tubes. As with everything else, you tend to get what you pay for. I bet a B.L.U.E. Cactus sounds better than a Studio Projects TB-1 in almost all cases. (duh- $3000 vs. $300)
I also believe that putting a small tube in the front end of a preamp does not automatically cause it to suck. It doesn't automatically make it any better, either. In short, tubes? big fuckin' deal.-Richie

[juststartingout]

I am very new to pro audio as it is. However, I have been playing guitar since the early 70's and tubes make a huge difference in that arena. The warmth and presence that they offer can not be had with the solid state stuff. I guess what it comes down to is, is that what is required with a voice or do you want extremely clean for the voice. Once a tube is close to saturation, the properties of the signal, change in ways that solid state can't.

By the way, I worked on tube radars in the air force on F4 phantoms. We had about twice the range of the solid state radars that were in the newer F4s. While we were much heavier, we had better "first look" capabilities.

Tubes will handle a great amount of power and does it in ways soilid state cannot. In a radar application, I believe that is needed. In a guitar application, I won't give my tube amps up. In a voice application I don't know what I want yet.

[c9-2001]

so vs a nice mic going into mackie,tascam,soundcraft preamps.. the setup i plan on going with should have more warmth and overall a better sound right?

i know Mindprint isn't cheap stuff.. i have a chance to get a nice focusrite preamp too...i have a clean sound now, but i have to go through to much compression in nuendo, and after working at a few local studios over the last few weeks, i see simply by having a nice pic pre and a outboard compressor vocals sound much better and tend to have more presence....
thanks for everyone's help.. i'll see what all i can afford and get my new stuff..

[Deen]

since you're all talking about tubes,

and most of you say that tubes are goooood.
Does that mean a Marshall 100 watt head would
make an excellent instrument preamp for direct
recording. Minus any gain generated noise. How bout
using it for a mic pre? How's that? Would that be a good idea?
anyone? It's got tubes right? Three ax7's in the preamp.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by juststartingout
I have been playing guitar since the early 70's and tubes make a huge difference in that arena. The warmth and presence that they offer can not be had with the solid state stuff.

Totally different application. Try singing through your guitar pickup or plugging a mic in to your amplifier and you'll know what I mean.