Fostex VF160

[lilman42459]

Ok I am thinking about getting one of these.

How is the mix down in it? Is it pretty user friendly?
Does this get good vocal quality?


Thanks
Lilman

[theletterq]

The internal mixdown is pretty cool...just hit a couple of buttons and you're mixing down.

If you have any experience with multi-track recorders, I find the unit pretty user friendly. Some of the more advanced features may require some in-depth manual reading. By the way, the manual is not the greatest, but I don't find it quite as bad as some other people do.

The vocal sound lies mainly in your mic and preamp, but if you're talking the built-in effects, they're not that great. With some pretty heavy tweaking of the presets, I've found you can get a sound that is "passable".

[bingbing]

I've found the VF-160 to be incredibly user friendly. Many of the features I haven't even opened the manual for.

I like the quality of the machine, and I haven't toyed with it much in terms of mic's or mixers or preamps. I've gotten decent quality recordings with minimal effort. In terms of vocals, that isn't something I have had to concentrate on.

bing

[lilman42459]

Does it have a built in compressor?

[btrousers]

Yes it has a compressor.
Mine does not have the built in CDRW ,and over here in the UK it is a ridiculous price (as are SCSI devices ) .Has anyone successfully used a different (cheaper) cdrw in the slot ?

[Garry Sharp]

Hi trousers

I'va asked that question myself about a cheaper alternative CDRW, and seen it asked elselwhere before, and the answer seems to be no. Recommended retail on the CD1A is £299 but most places have them at £199. My plan is to wait until somebody overstocks on them; in the meantime I use the digi out to get the tracks onto my PC. Very tedious but it works.

[lilman42459]

I am getting mine from American Music and it has a CDR built in already. You guys must have had your for awhile.

Can you burn each track by it self for computer editing or does this auto mix down?

[btrousers]

Thanks Gary .
Trouble is that when I first went to buy , some of the shops I tried were trying to sell it already installed , almost suggesting they had come pre-installed .
The only thing we can hope is they sell enough without cdr and end up unable to shift them .
Seems ridiculous that they charge £199 when the same devices for laptops are much cheaper . That's why I was hoping someone had managed to fit a different drive . I borrowed a scsi zip from someone , tried to save a fairly standard 5 minute song and it asked me for 4 zip disks which are about 7 quid each !!!
Trousers.

[Garry Sharp]

lil - you can burn each track as a separate .wav file, dry or processed as you wish.

bt - hooking up the spdif to a souncard with digi in is free!

[ShadowKat]

Hey lilman: Have you received your unit yet???.....mine arrives tommorrow and I just wondered what experiences you've had thus far! Would like to get a "heads up"!

[PeteHalo]

Listen guys, get a soundcard with Adat interface and you won't miss the CDRW at all. The cheapest Adat cards are less than £100 and if you have a CDRW in your computer which I believe you all have, it's easy to hook the VF up to computer and transfer 8 tracks at a time for editing on computer. Sure you can do it using SPDIF but thru the Adat interface its more than four times faster and there's a lot you can't do using SPDIF that you can with Adat.

Using Zip disks for transferring data to computer is as btrousers said slow and tedious. 100MB zip disk can hold 20 track minutes and that's not very much. I tried it once as a test when I got a zip drive for upgrading the OS in my VF16 and it took minutes to write one disk. Using the Adat interface it's much faster and less complicated.

[lilman42459]

Mine comes in next week. Can't waiti to get it. I have a friend coming when I get it to do test recordings. I can't wait

[Goodwin Audio]

Wrong Topic,
Sorry

Daniel
www.meetgoodwin.com

[btrousers]

Again , out of my depth here , but what software do you transfer the tracks into and what kind of editing are you doing on the pc that you will not have done on the VF160 ?
Just curious for future use .

[ShadowKat]

Well I received my VF160CDR about a week ago and have been going thru the manual as suggested, before operating the unit, (do they make a VF160CDR for dummies manual?) and now I know less then when I started reading it! I come from the 'old school' days of four track reel to reel and cassette (before the days of personal computers) and did my last recording almost 20 years ago, so I'm really over my head here. So Sunday, I made my first attempt to home record my newly formed band with the VF160. I got the VF160 because I wanted the capability of recording a full band live in simo, and needed the portability of a stand alone unit, verses a computer based system, so I utilized the direct record method as opposed to buss recording (Is this smart?) I can't access the built in eq or effects using this method (correct?) until after the recording in mix down. (Is there a way to eq or effects during the recording using outboard gear, and if so, how?) This is how I connected it up in conjunction with my PA system: I have a Mackie 808M powered mixer board that has eight channels, so I added a Behringer MX802A min-mixer that has 6 channels (4@XLR and 2@line-in) in order to gain enough channels to mic my drums with Nady Drum Mics (4@DM70;1@DM80) and 1 SM57 on the hi-hat. I access the two line-in inputs with line matching transformers (is this really necessary, because I think I read in a post where someone just used a 1/4 inch to xlr connection) to mic my kick drum and hi-hat. From the "drum mixer" I go main out L&R to one channel on the power mixer that has L&R line inputs. For vocals, I use one Sennheiser Profipower MD431 for lead (which happens to be over the drums), one SM58, and one Peavy PVM 580TN. I access the VF160 by using the insert jacks on the mackie for the three vocal mics and go directly to channels 4,5, and 6 of the recorder. I came out of the "drum mixer" from the RCA tape out L&R to a Y cord (2 to 1) to channel 1 of the recorder. For the lead guitar I go out of his mesa boogie amp by accessing his record out jack by way of his tuner to channel 2. For the bass player, I use a joint connection by coming out of his combination pre-amp/stomp box/direct box, by way of his parallel 1/4 inch output (he also has a xlr output, should I be using that?) and the output of his chrous effect he has built into his amp, connected to a Y connection then going to channel 3 of the recorder. Guitars are not miced thru the PA. Connected in this manner leaves 4 channels open on the PA and channels 7 & 8 open on the recorder. Extra gear I have on hand are an array of audio-technica 350d mics, an Alesis Quadraverb, and a DOD dual 15 band graphic equalizer. Any comments regarding this configuration would be greatly appreciated, as I admit, I have limited intelligence in this field.

[theletterq]

Someone else will be able to help you with your setup more, but you CAN access the effects in direct mode for monitoring purposes. They will not be recorded that way. This is so you can give your vocalist some reverb in their headphones for example.

[Kramer]

Originally posted by Goodwin Audio
Wrong Topic,
Sorry

Daniel
www.meetgoodwin.com

Spam. I thought you upgraded to a new recording system daniel.

[teainthesahara]

Hey shadowkat,
ive recorded a few bands with similarities in equipment
to what you have posted..im a bit confused though on what is getting recorded - i'll put my 2cents in ; could you define the instrumetns (e.g. 2 guitar amps, keys, 4 peice kit, how many vocalists) ?

T

Originally posted by ShadowKat
Well I received my VF160CDR about a week ago and have been going thru the manual as suggested, before operating the unit, (do they make a VF160CDR for dummies manual?) and now I know less then when I started reading it! I come from the 'old school' days of four track reel to reel and cassette (before the days of personal computers) and did my last recording almost 20 years ago, so I'm really over my head here. So Sunday, I made my first attempt to home record my newly formed band with the VF160. I got the VF160 because I wanted the capability of recording a full band live in simo, and needed the portability of a stand alone unit, verses a computer based system, so I utilized the direct record method as opposed to buss recording (Is this smart?) I can't access the built in eq or effects using this method (correct?) until after the recording in mix down. (Is there a way to eq or effects during the recording using outboard gear, and if so, how?) This is how I connected it up in conjunction with my PA system: I have a Mackie 808M powered mixer board that has eight channels, so I added a Behringer MX802A min-mixer that has 6 channels (4@XLR and 2@line-in) in order to gain enough channels to mic my drums with Nady Drum Mics (4@DM70;1@DM80) and 1 SM57 on the hi-hat. I access the two line-in inputs with line matching transformers (is this really necessary, because I think I read in a post where someone just used a 1/4 inch to xlr connection) to mic my kick drum and hi-hat. From the "drum mixer" I go main out L&R to one channel on the power mixer that has L&R line inputs. For vocals, I use one Sennheiser Profipower MD431 for lead (which happens to be over the drums), one SM58, and one Peavy PVM 580TN. I access the VF160 by using the insert jacks on the mackie for the three vocal mics and go directly to channels 4,5, and 6 of the recorder. I came out of the "drum mixer" from the RCA tape out L&R to a Y cord (2 to 1) to channel 1 of the recorder. For the lead guitar I go out of his mesa boogie amp by accessing his record out jack by way of his tuner to channel 2. For the bass player, I use a joint connection by coming out of his combination pre-amp/stomp box/direct box, by way of his parallel 1/4 inch output (he also has a xlr output, should I be using that?) and the output of his chrous effect he has built into his amp, connected to a Y connection then going to channel 3 of the recorder. Guitars are not miced thru the PA. Connected in this manner leaves 4 channels open on the PA and channels 7 & 8 open on the recorder. Extra gear I have on hand are an array of audio-technica 350d mics, an Alesis Quadraverb, and a DOD dual 15 band graphic equalizer. Any comments regarding this configuration would be greatly appreciated, as I admit, I have limited intelligence in this field.

[ShadowKat]

theletterq: I'm getting that thru the pa system as I'm doing this live and simo. What I mean, is there a way to use, say my quadraverb somehow, to ad effects, or my graphic eq, to the recording, as it records, and monitor as well.

teaintthesahara: I'm using 6 tracks on the recorder. I have the last two free. Track one are the drums (which go thru that Berhinger mixer that has 6 channels for 5-piece drum kit and hi-hat. Track two for lead guitar. Track Three for bass guitar. Track four for lead vocal. Track five for backup/lead vocal. Track six for backup/lead vocal. This is a three piece rock 'n' blues band. The lead guitar player has been using track seven on some songs as rhythm guitar after simo recording.

I appreciate any and all suggestions or comments and will gladly submit any additional information you may need to help me in this endeavor. Thanks in advance.

[theletterq]

You can use the Quadraverb via the Aux sends. The only problem with this is you'll have to give up a channel for the return (Fostex brilliantly designed an effect send with no dedicated return). When you say you are recording live, does that mean you are recording your actual live show?

Also, since you have two more inputs available, I would try running the drums into a stereo pair of tracks.

[teainthesahara]

shadowkat,
yeah, i think there is an alternative way to configure your setup
that should give you better flexiblity at mix down time.....
Do I have this right -
you have a 5 peice kit, one guitar amp, a bass, and 2 vocals that get recorded at once?

T

[ShadowKat]

theletterq: ok, so come out the vf160 via aux send,go to the input (left side) of quadraverb. Then come out of output (left side) of the quadraverb, and go to input of one channel of the vf160 (not to powered mixer), right?....and this will give me effects as I record, right?......And yes, I'm recording a live show...and rehearsing this live show at home.....I'll use channel one for this effect hookup (where I had the drum mix going) and then use channels 7 & 8 for the drum mix....will this help alot???

teainthesahara: that's what I was thinking....I was afraid I might be limiting my capabilites, but was unsure of the possibilities. I have one guitar player, one bass player, one drummer with 5 piece kit, and three vocals (one lead, two back up) that get recorded at once.

Thanks for you continuing help!!!!

[teainthesahara]

Hi shadowkat…ok here are some idea’s:

The main goal behind these tips are to minimize the amount of submixes and mics you are using, but maximize the amount of tracks you are recording at once with the fostex. It’s kind of a less-is-more approach, and in this case could give you more flexibility at mixdown for the best sound. In this case, im assuming some of your drum mic’s are condensers and need phantom power, and im also assuming a few things about your mixers (more below).

The overview:
Guitar – Mic into VF
BASS – line in into VF
DRUMS – 3 mics only; each mic has it’s own fader/input
VOCAL 1 – mic into VF
VOCAL 2 – mic into VF
VOCAL 3 – mic into VF

With more detail:
GUITAR – mic that cab with whatever get’s the sound you like. Plug the XLR into one of the XLR-1/4 transformer’s you have (should be a impedance matching, LowZ to HiZ connector), and hook it up to track 1 on the VF.

BASS – I think you line-in set-up as previously described works – do it so you have one 1 / 4 input plugged into track 2 on the VF.

DRUMS – you got options here to match to your situation. I would recommend only using 3 mics, and avoid submixing – it can work just fine (submixing)– but you MUST get it right the first time and now that it will work in the mix – a challenging thing for us beginners. The aim is to get 3 superior sounding, independent tracks recorded to your VF that gives you flexibility later on. You can use an overhead mic, a snare mic, and a kick drum mic. Or, two overheads and a kick drum mic. If you’ve never done it before, and this will be a live run through of your set, I might opt for the overhead, snare kick setup. Put your condensor over the kit, play, and get a good balanced view of the cybals/toms. Plug this mic into the XLR input (track8) of the VF, which has phantom power. Take the snare, and run that through the other XLR-1/4 transformer – put that into, say, track 3 on the VF. OK – kick drum – watch out! – Assuming you are doing everything within the VF – post recording – realize that the low EQ control blows on the VF. Take the kick mic, put it into one of those mixers, say the Behringer. On the Behring. Mixer, pan that input HARD left. Then take the left output of the mixer, and plug it into input 4 on the VF – Basically, you are using the mixer as an XLR-1/4 adapter, and you can do this by putting only 2 mic’s into it, panning them hard left and right, and taking the LEFT and RIGHT outputs into the VF as separate inputs. Get that Bass guitar and kick working now, at this stage! – If need be, play with the kick drum mic placement, and do some subtractive EQ work on the mixer to cut out the crap you don’t need – the VF EQ wont let you do this later.

Vocal 1, 2, 3 – Same deal as the kick drum. Using the mixers, plug those in, and pan hard right or left. Using the LEFT and RIGHT outputs, insert those signals into the VF, so they get recorded separately.

Ok, so now, you should have everything you need to be recording plugged in, and you will be utilizing all 8 input tracks on the VF. You don’t have to restrict yourself to the example I wrote above especially if you want to add effects while tracking (I might be inclined to not worry about the effects while recording, simplify, and use the VF’s effects later)– just use the principles- using those mixers as ‘XLR-1/4 adapters with EQ capability’, and have fun…

T

[teainthesahara]

oh yeah,
incase you did'nt know,
you know have tracks 9 to 16 open for your guitar player
to add his overdubs!!!!! And i dig the blues so you best
be posting some material later!!!

T

[PeteHalo]

Yesterday I was recording a 6-piece metal band's demo with my VF16. The band was unknown to me and I only had met their keyboard player the day before and I'm not a metal guy so I didn't know exactly what I was into. To say that this was a demo is a bit exaggerated as they wanted to record it straight in with no overdubs to see what they are really capable of live and this is something I've never tried before. Using my little Fostex VM88 digital mixer to feed 8 extra channels to VF16 thru adat input we had 16 tracks to work with. Seven tracks was used for drums, 2 for 2 guitar cabs, 1 for bass amp's lineout, 1 for keyboard (the other was feeding keyboard amp) and 2 for vocals for total of 13 tracks. Setting up the mics and the recording gear took an hour and checking the levels to make sure nothing would clip took half an hour. The band had rehearsed the songs well and only 2 of the 7 songs needed a second take so in an hour we had 6 songs recorded. Recording 7 songs took two and a half hours from the moment I arrived to the scene. Talk about speed metal;-)

While writing this I'm transferring the songs over to Cubase using the adat interface and despite of what some of the die hard scsi fans say it's simple and straight forward and the time it takes can be used for something useful like surfing the web.