Help!...Arguing with a Stubborn Engineer!!!!

[UtahBites]

Greetings all...great forum here!
(first timer)
I’ve been an outside reader on this site for a while now and thought you all would be quite helpful with a problem I'm having...
I am in a band who has done a few home-recording sessions on a VS1680. We own a $10,000 PA system, but our recording equipment purchases have been limited--We don't own studio monitors, and only have a mediocre set of headphones.
A band member owns the 1680 and has been quite adamant about doing all of the recording/mixing/mastering on his own. He has a good ear, but isn't very experienced at recording/mixing/mastering.
We have tried for a while to convince him that we NEED studio monitors to record proper levels so that we get a more "true" response of what we are recording. Our ultimate goal is to achieve a high-quality radio-worthy product.
The rest of the band has agreed that shelling out money for outside mastering would be a good investment because we can do a good recording on our own to save some $ we can use to invest in mastering and reproduction costs.
He takes our opinion as a personal slap in the face against his abilities to do it all himself. How do you convince someone that musical talent cannot compensate for lack of equipment and resources in trying to achieve professional studio-quality recording??
He is downright ADAMANT that he can "record everything flat" using our Peavy PA speakers as "sufficient" studio monitors (both for recording levels AND mixing/mastering). I disagree STRONGLY based on the fundamentals of the PA system design.
So then...WHO IS RIGHT?!?!?!
I believe that without "real" studio-quality monitors, we are going to get a recorded mix that is untrue of the actual tones and levels that we think we are hearing during playback through our PA system, and whoever tries to master it will not be able to achieve the results we are looking for because the recorded instrument balance and initial mix-down will be inherently lop-sided.
I am hoping for some expert advice/feedback as I have used this forum as a resource for some great info quite frequently, and the knowledge base here has proven to be invaluable time after time
(really…I’m not trying to suck-up just to get you all to respond!)
Thanks for your time and feedback in advance...
(Utah Bites)

[Dan The Speakerman]

This is a similar situation that my friends find themselves in; at least in terms of having a nice studio with lousy monitors and lousy headphones. Guess what you get?? LOUSY recordings!

I've been in music for over twenty years, doing everything from mixing live bands, recording/engineering, selling audio equipment, playing instruments (learning bass right now) and almost everything in-between. Right now, I repair home audio loudspeakers for a living. I have always had good ears, and the bottom line is a valid saying I picked up in audio sales; You're only as good as your weakest link. Got a $20,000.00 McIntosh amp? It'll only sound as good as the speakers it's pushing; and the quality of the speakers may limit what the amp can do, too. Got a great guitar? Got a great amp? Got a noisy effects unit? Then your great setup will only sound as good as that noisy effects unit. I think you get the drift...

This has nothing to do with the 1680's owner's ears. It's simply a fact that you can't and won't do a quality recording if you have crappy phones and/or monitors. Because you are tailoring the sound to that subpar equipment. He's got a great machine that can get you pro-quality recordings; why not "finish the chain" and get some high quality phones and good monitors? Make the investment in those pieces of gear, and you'll find they will pay themselves off quickly; especially with less time spent dickin' around with trying to get good sound from PA monitors in a recording studio. Like you said, PAs are NOT designed for this application; studio monitors are much more sensitive and detailed like very good home speakers. Most people don't listen to PA speakers at home

Again, I reiterate: You are only as good as your weakest link.

[UtahBites]

Dan,
I appreciate your input, which is helpful in reaffirming what I already had been researching.
Thanks again!
(UtahBites)

[Dan The Speakerman]

You bet, Utah....I hope it helps!

[virtual.ray]

It seems to me that the real problem here is finding a way to get your bandmate to come to a more reasonable perspective on this matter.Maybe you could let him have total control over the recording/mixing/mastering of 1 song and then take the results to places where they can be listened to critically on the type of equipment you feel is more appropriate,and with others who are sympathetic to your point of view,and see what happens then.Good luck.

[Hano]

The easiest way, and to many times over loocked, is to listen first without all the extra expenses. Everyone has fair stereo equipment at home these days. Connect your HiFi Amp with good speakers to the Line out's of the VS1640. By preference to Aux/CD in.
You will have to listen to your CD/mix/master on similar equipment anyway. Most HiFi Amps have the ability to connect 2 speaker pairs. This way you will be able to make a first selection on sound. And you can directly her the diffrence with PA speakers.
You can stil decide later what is the best Prof. monitor solution to buy.
This way you can continue with the recording.
Headphones are not so expensive, so you basicly need a few pairs of that.

[Burton]

Utah... you can get an adequate mix solely using headphones, but you are correct that headphones and PA are not the optimal method of getting things done. I've learned that the minute I say "impossible" is the minute someone will hand me a mix they cranked out on their 3-year old's "my first sony."

Honestly, I'd be more concerned about the guy's unwillingness to get anybody else involved in the process... as commented on by virtual. I'd question any single person's ability to take music from recording through mixing and mastering while remaining totally objective. There really is a value to "fresh ears" and "new perspective" on tracks, even if all the sounds were originally captured well.