RAT TO RAT: AN INTROSPECTIVE LOOK INTO TURD POLISHING (chapter one)

[rats]

Ladies and Gentlemen the remixes are in!

Fate has had it's haphazard way with the homereccers once again. This time Lady Destiny has pitted rat against rat in the remixing arena to find the best formula to polish a turd of a recording, or at least a turd in Brucie Blue Bear's opinion! Well, maybe it's not quite to that extent, but it's something. Let's take a walk back in time, shall we?

Back in August my band was poised and ready for our upcoming CD release party a week away and I was looking fir some last minute tips on mastering. The songs were already mixed and I had posted them here for critiques and got back generally good feedback from the resident MP3 surgeons. I was ready for maybe a tip or two on EQing or compression when the cold hard reality of these songs not being street ready came crashing down. Mr. Brucie opened the can of worms that led to my precious infant children of songs to be henceforth referred to as "turds".

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sho...threadid=59180

If you're interested, you can also find a link to the original turds on that thread.

So anyway Track Rat offers to give it a whirl and I send him out the session data for the three songs and he does his thing. Meanwhile I start fucking around with T-Racks and try my hand at mastering.

After somehow T-rat's remixes got lost in the mail, we finally pin it down. The CD release party still happened but we're only pressing them as we need them so the production has been on stand by.

So here's where you come in. I've listened to both masters and they both sound good to me. We definitely have different styles (maybe my style is just sucky I don't know). I consider myself a novice engineer with a pretty decent ear for what sounds good. I'm going to post all three songs one at a time with both rat's versions of the mix and master, and I want your opinions. This has nothing to do with who is the better engineer, this is not a competition. I'm personally trying to learn a thing or two about how I can improve on my mixing and recording skills. Maybe we can all learn something from this!

Here's the link, and the first song will be Dick Oskie.
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...=1155&alid=104

Incidentally, this song got a great review on GodsofMusic.com, it was the highest rated song in the alternative music category for the month of October, and came in second place in the race for artist of the month. This was all done on the "turd" mix.

Listen to both tracks, and let us know which one sounds better. There are two obviously different approaches to this song, so it will be a matter of preference to some degree, but technical merit will surely come in to play on some level or another. Either way, one of each of these remixes will most likely end up on my band's CD so your opinion matters!

Over the course of the week I'll post the other two songs as well in new threads. At the end of the week I may or may not reveal which rat did which mix. Again this isn't a contest, it's an exploration!

[Track Rat]

[B.SABBATH]

the first mix is encoded @ 160kbps..

the second is 192kbps..


test is void!

[rats]

As if you can hear the difference! Come on Goldenears!

If it really makes that much of a difference I'll encode a new file.

[B.SABBATH]

fuck it...

I like mix A better..

[Mark VH]

I voted B. I liked the sense of space in the stereo imaging.

[chrisharris]

Originally posted by B.SABBATH
I like mix A better..

Well, at least we can agree on the music.

Mix B sounds like it was run through a Sonic Maximizer... more hyped Highs. For whatever reason, Mix A just sounds better to me, even at the lower bitrate.

For what it's worth, I'm getting some weird distortion on Mix B around the :46-:54 spot. I know mix B is at a higher bitrate, but it's weirding out. Was the same encoder used for both?

MIX A gets my vote.

[Phyl]

Even though mix A seemed to be more "balanced" (whatever the hell that means) I liked Mix B better because it had more of raw, raunchy sound, like rock and roll should. The guitars sounded more dynamic and in your face, the drums sounded a lot more like drums...more dynamics overall, a very engerized mix.

[B.SABBATH]

the deciding factor for me was this..

the average person doesn't listen to tunes on monitors, or with a flat e.q.

Most people I know crank up the treble or the bass at least.. If you pop version B in the deck, there is no room for any more e.q.ing, and it will sound harsh or muddy.. or both.. (I have heard that my mixes were harsh and muddy at the same time.)

Version A will sound better taking into consideration that people usually add some type of treble, bass or e.q..

I found several brain darts in mix B.. and that made me have to lower it. As opposed to mix A where I was able to crank it, and it held up..

[JMarcomb]

the A mix sounds pretty good

[Emeric]

A for me, B was way too harsh. Sounds like you increased the guitar effects in places on B as well. Too much.

A.

[rats]

Hey thanks for listening all and thanks for the analysis.

I don't want to say too much because I don't want to give away the identity of the mystery mixers, but I will say that the MP3's were not encoded on the same machine. However I really don't think that the bitrate is going to make that much of a difference!

Sabbath- a very interesting angle you have there! I like the new avatar man. Thanks for always giving up good usable feedback!

Thanks everyone!

[Track Rat]

I'll have what's behind door number three.

[participant]

B has too much hiss, evident in the intro... and in the outro too.. there's also less separation of instruments. B is louder, but it seems like everything in A has better separation and can be heard individually... tho a better cymbal track would provide some missing highs. On A, someone's gone to the trouble of "de-hissing" the tracks. Also on A, the vox are actually understandable... and that reverb trail at the end... ahhhhh nice fade... A

A wins hands down (sorry rats )

[rats]

Yes, parti, you are right! A has the seperation.

Track has put out some nice, clean, well balanced, defined tunes here. I will attempt to pick at his brains later!

There is one thing that jumps into my mind every time I listen to this. There have been more than a few people that have commented on the similaroties between this song and Iggy and the Stooges' Search and Destroy, but why I don't know. There are maybe one or two parts to the song that might sound a little like S&D but that's about as far as it goes. Anyway, he mixed this song almost EXACTLY like that Iggy tune! I always thought that mix was interesting with the distorted rythym guitars further down in the mix, when punk guitars are usually more loud and up front. Either way it was a cool ass tune, and Tracky's mix did my tune righteously.

[Track Rat]

Any simalarities were subconsious but I did listen to a lot of Iggy and the Stooges, MC-5, Lou Reed, etc in my miss spent youth. As I told you in an early email, as i was mixing these I got a whole new appriciation for your tunes and lyrics the more I listened.