How can I use OH condensers w/o picking up Kick?

[Vurt]

What can I do to eliminate or drastically reduce the amount of Kick picked up by the overhead mics (2 ECM8000's), if anything? Usually it's no big deal and is actually what I'm after, but there's a particular song I do NOT want to hear the Kick on via the OH's - just on the K mic itself. I can deal with snare/tom signals, but the K that the OHs pick up is BOOMY as hell and I can't get ride of it.

What I resorted to was not using the OH's at all and using dynamics on the cymbals, but I'm really sacrificing a lot of sound for isolation and flexibility. I've thought about placing the ECM's much closer to the cymbals, but haven't tried it.

thanks...

[Chibi Nappa]

If you don't like the kick sound, I'd work on fixing the sound of the kick drum itself so what is picked up in the overheads sounds pleasing. If the kick sounds boomy in your current room, try recording in a different room. Or put bookshelves or something in your current room or move the kit to a different part of the room or something.... The only way I can think to keep the kick out of the overheads is to not play the kick at all. You could also use a midi trigger for the kick. You'd pick up some beater click on the trigger pad in the overheads, but it would be much less than what a real kick drum would give you.

[shackrock]

i put a blanket over my kick drum, it reduces the noise a lot, but dont worry - its still very present on those OH's. ha. of course, i woudn't continue to do it if it didnt help...so i suggest you try that.

[Tom Hicks]

This month's issue of TapeOp has an article on home recording of drums that I was reading last night.The writer has a big cotton futon placed in front of the bass drum, used as a kind of bass trap to absorb a lot of the low boomy freqs.I am recording drums this week and plan on placing cushions from my couch around the front of the bass drum for the same purpose,as well as a kind of tent or tunnel of blankets for the kick mic to have better isolation.
Also,I've had good success with mixerman's 4 mic technique,but this time I'm going to do an X-Y pattern for the overheads and see how that compares to wider placements.

[littledog]

You could always just roll off the low end with EQ.

[shackrock]

Originally posted by littledog
You could always just roll off the low end with EQ.

not if you hope for those same overheads to pick up all 3 of your toms...lol damn only 4 mics to hell! haha

[Vurt]

thanks for your comments/suggestions...

There isn't a lot I can do about the room other than a bass trap or something, but I'm not using the OHs for toms/snare anyway, so EQ is definitely worth a shot and may be the way to go. I've got everything on the kit at least single mic'd and only want the OHs for cymbals. As I said though, I was unimpressed with what I got by close mic'ing them with dynamics (57's).

[TexRoadkill]

You could create a huge baffle with a hole for the cymbal stands and a big hole in the middle for the drummer and he would wear it around his waist. It would be similar to the guitarist/singer head baffle just really, really big.

[Vurt]

Holy shit, I don't think he'd like that

[Shailat]

It's so simple and littledog said it. I do it all the time out of choice and not due to a problem.

Just use a high pass filter on the OH's and bring up the freq. untill you lose most of the boom. I cut up from 150-250 most of the time.

[20db.com]

Vurt these are really good and valuable suggestions but the first question that popped into my head was, "Why the ECM-8000 ?".

The fact that these are omnis might be part of your problem. Have you thought about trying different mics as a first step ?

Sounds to me like the omnis are doing exactly what they are designed to do.

Lee

[donkeystyle]

i've had that problem.......if you put your overheads close to the cymbals, you'll get less bleed from the kit.............just keep them far enough from the cymbals that when you hit them the edge doesn't bounce back and forth in fronf of the mic (if it does, it'll sound weird)

you can also cut the lows, but i wouldn't cut any more that 400 or 500hz, because then it'll start changing the sound of your cymbals..... but this is probably obvious since 400 and 500 hz are mids.

also, only turn them up loud enough to hear the cymbals and not change the sound of the drums.......... maybe mix the drums first and get them sounding the way you want and slowly pull the cymbals up until you can hear them and they don't have an effect on the sound of the other drums.

lots of people have a habit of turning the cymbals up too much and they end up getting a problem with drum bleed.

[Vurt]

The ecm's are the only matched condenser pair I have, which is why I'm using them. You're right though - they're doing exactly what they should be, I would just like to cut out the lows if possible rather than buy new mics.

I'm looking into high pass filters now...

[detuned6]

Originally posted by 20db.com
Vurt these are really good and valuable suggestions but the first question that popped into my head was, "Why the ECM-8000 ?".

The fact that these are omnis might be part of your problem. Have you thought about trying different mics as a first step ?

Sounds to me like the omnis are doing exactly what they are designed to do.

Lee

Thats it! I use a ecm for overheads, i get alot of kick in my overheads, i useally cut the lows which help, but i got the danmar metal beater pad thingy(click ckick) so the OH pick up that pretty good without the low cut. I really like the sound of close mics so, im not big into the sound of the drums in my over heads,(just cym..thats what i aim for) so im thinking of getting the Octavia mc12's. It seems they will due better.

I tried the tunnel/ tent thing on the kick and that works great.(punchy like a motherf**ker!)
I still cant get a good snare sound with a 57 that i "really" like. The more i back the mic away the better the sound, but it picks up everything else to.
That article in tape op is a good read. I got to try that mic in the opposite room idea.