Mixer recommendations - Mackie, Behringer, . . . what?

[foo]

I've got a Mona, an AT 4033 (plus SM 57 and 58), Hafler power and NS10 monitors (I know, some of you hate 'em!).
Coming soon - Yamaha Motif 6.

On Ebay I'm seeing Mackie 1202/1402 for $200 - $350.
Mona has mic pre-amps plus phantom power.

Any comments, recommendations re: how many inputs/outputs, how clean, etc.?

Thank you, thank you.

foo

[Ace2000]

Ya, I wouldnt buy anything second hand from ebay.
I dont want to pay 200 hundreds bucks for a mixer thats been left outside or dropped. No thanks.

But anyways, I was in your position a month or so ago when I need to get a new mixer. A went with mackie. Bherringer was a tempting cheaper one, but I decided to buy a good ol made in USA qaulity product. The Mackie 1202 has been an excellent mixer so far. It is protable and suitable for what I need. one day Ill get a bigger Mixer, but right now it wouldnt be practicle for me.
Im not playing stadiums and Im not in a symphony so I dont need a 2000 channel mixer with wings and landing gear. And when I do, Ill rent it rather than mortgage the house for it.

I'd say go with the mackie. We have real old Mackie in our jam studio and it still running great without problems. A ten year old Mixer still working excellentl was all i needed to see to be sold on Mackie.

[shadowfax]

... in a symphony?

[shadowfax]

p.s. ... i've got a mackie cr1604 and it's great.. i got it off ebay and everything's a-ok. however, everyone here will tell you "SOUNDCRAFT, SOUNDCRAFT, SOUNDCRAFT!!!" and in all honesty i'm going to be upgrading to a spirit m12 when i get the chance, so check them out before you commit to anything else.

i've never made this mistake, but the word on the street is that behringer is kinda like a good-looking prostitute with herpes; avoid it like the plague.

[Chris Tondreau]

A lot of people have "heard that" Behringer mixers are crap, but there is a whole lot of rhetoric out there, and little of it is backed up with anything concrete. If you want the straight goods, talk to someone who has used one. That said, you can certainly buy better mixer products than Behringer, but their mixers serve a certain portion of the market, and they do it very well for what they set out to do - offer a reasonable level of quality for not a lot of money.

There is a lot of rhetoric about Behringer stealing others' designs. As I understand it, with respect to mixers in particular, Mackie tried to sue Behringer because they felt that a certain mixer essentially stole their design. (one can't help wondering if the two mixers sounded the same, if Mackie was so convinced that their design was stolen....) An expert was called in, and reported that the Behringer mixer used a different circuitry design altogether, and the case was thrown out. Behringer responded with counter-litigation.

I own an MX802A Eurorack mixer. I've had it for over two years, and it has never even hinted at a problem - so much for the reliability arguements. Then again, I don't abuse my stuff.... The sound that comes out is close enough to what is going in for me. I can't hear anything untoward.

As far as customer support goes, the dealer that I buy from takes Behringer products back and then the store deals with Behringer - not the consumer. He reports that no more Behringer products come back than those from other manufacturers, and that they have not had any problems in dealing with Behringer as a retailer, and in the pursuit of dealing with returned goods on behalf of the consumer. So much for the poor customer support rhetoric....

I realize that MY story may not necessarily be indicitave of others' stories, and that there will always be people out there who have stories that suggest the opposite is true - but the same can be said for probably any manufacturer.

I also realize that I have never used an SSL console, or a vintage Neve console. I suppose you don't realize the shortcommings of your Honda Accord until you've driven a Ferrarri. Most of us, though, never get that luxury.

Chris


...oh, and Bon Jovi's producer uses Behringer compressors.... and I'm sure that he doesn't use them because they're all he can afford.

[sjjohnston]

You might take a look at the A&H Mixwizards too. I don't think there's anything that competes in the same price range as the smallest Mackies, but they do sort of line up with the 1604. Much less plentiful, though, so you probably won't see a lot of them on eBay.

[ambi]

behringer's crap, you buy it you die.

[MISTERQCUE]

Originally posted by ambi
behringer's crap, you buy it you die.

The man has just spoken the TRUTH !!!!

[Chris Tondreau]

C'mon, Q.... buddy .....

We know that's your opinion of their mixers (granted, what the thread is about), but some of us also know you like some of their stuff (compressors). Misterqcue has bought their stuff, and is apparently alive and well.... and hasn't quit the board, either. (kinda got me on that little joke too )

Chris

[MISTERQCUE]

Originally posted by Chris Tondreau
C'mon, Q.... buddy .....

We know that's your opinion of their mixers (granted, what the thread is about), but some of us also know you like some of their stuff (compressors). Misterqcue has bought their stuff, and is apparently alive and well.... and hasn't quit the board, either. (kinda got me on that little joke too )

Chris

Wassup DJ Chris!!!!

Oh no!!!, Don't get me wrong! I own the Auto,Multi and Composer Pro comps, The Intelligate, The Stereo Enhancer, The Virtualizer (that thing sucks) and the Bass 1000! I like SOME of Beh's products, but brutha', I hate their mixers!!! I should know! I used to own 1 !!!

Later Gator!!

[Treeline]

I bought a Mackie CFX 12 and a Behringer mixer (ferget the model - 4 XLRs in and sliders, stereo bus). They both work. They both have limitations. This is about what's available for the price point.

I've found the Behringer is a little quieter (the CFX does not pretend to be a recording console - it's a stage mixer) but the Mackie is built like a tank. I suspect that ten years from now, I'll be still saying that about the Mackie and the Behringer will have been recycled. Both are good values for their respective price points. The Behringer is a little harsh with female vocals.

I'd spring for a small Mackie with the high end preamps, but look at Soundcraft or A&H first. Get the CFX if you want a killer stage mixer, but don't expect it to be a studio mixer as well. These are each entry level mixers and they will each come with a set of compromises. That's OK with me - they get the job done.







-----------------------------------
But the NEXT thing I get - I dunna wanna hearabout da compramazzzas!!

[bgavin]

My conga player and a drummer friend both tell me the same thing about their Behringer mixers:

They over-heat.

My area of expertise is computers, not mixers. But I do know that over-temp electronics is eventually dead electronics.

I'd like to know more, so posters please publish for we newbies, some of the reasons why one is better than another.

[subtractor]

I've got a 1402vlz and I can't say anything but good things about it. It's built like a tank. I don't think you'll have any problem getting a good one on ebay. As long as theirs pictures and they say it works... I mean you would have to put forth quite a bit of effort to break the thing. If you were to use this mixer as a weapon to bludgeon someone with, the person would die before the mixer did!

[Chris Tondreau]

Originally posted by MISTERQCUE


Wassup DJ Chris!!!!

Oh no!!!, Don't get me wrong! I own the Auto,Multi and Composer Pro comps, The Intelligate, The Stereo Enhancer, The Virtualizer (that thing sucks) and the Bass 1000! I like SOME of Beh's products, but brutha', I hate their mixers!!! I should know! I used to own 1 !!!

Later Gator!!

Hey Q;

... so is a Behringer owner a musician?!



DJ Chris

[MISTERQCUE]

Originally posted by Chris Tondreau


Hey Q;

... so is a Behringer owner a musician?!



DJ Chris

Uhhhh, I refuse to answer on the grounds it might get my @ss kicked!!!

[Sennheiser]

Another nice 16 channel mixer is the TASCAM M-1516. It competes very well with the CR1604VLZ at one third the price.

The pre's are a bit warmer and not as sharp as the Mackie's, but every bit as clean and quiet if not more so.

Only three sends, and inserts only on the first eight channels. This is a dedicated recording console with direct out's and tape in's, as well as having four busses. It is a very flexible console at a good price.

Eight pre's, and more in's and out's than you'll know what to do with. Also a dual function that allows 24 inputs.

It retailed for $1200+ in '91. Typically going for $300-$350 on E-bay. If you use some caution and brains you can get a decent mixer from ebay. TASCAM M-1516

Take a look.

[morte sicura]

I got a Soundcraft M8 slightly used for $350; there are a few deals floating around out there


andrew >>|

[Jack Hammer]

for some strange reason, everyone here thinks Mackies are "built like tanks". I sppose that if you are going to war and need to use your mixer as a shield, that might be good. However, I have mackie mixer and I wo uld not buy another mackie product at this point. Oh yes, I have a 24-8 mixer, allegedly one of thier better analogue models. First problem, some of the channels have intermittent problems. Push the gain up and the channel might eventually come to life. This, by the way, is in a mixer less than a year and a half old that has recently been serviced for this very problem. Yet the probelm persists. Also, the Aux send and returns have the same intermittent problem. I was told that the original ribbon connector for the aux send and return was crappy but that Mackie knew about the problem and was offering a free upgrade. The catch, I had to pay some #$%^ to transport te mixer to the fix-it shop (I live in New York city where we do not, as a generaly rule, own CARS). Also, the fixit it shop was a rip-off operation (recommended by Mackie by the way) in that they advised that I would wait some indeterminite period of time for my mixer or pay $100.00 for the expedited one day service charge. This was out and out bullshit. They were just looking for a way to charge people for what was supposed to be free work under the warranty. This, by the way was not the worst of the problems with that fix-it shop and i anyone wants to know the name, I will be happy to respond in a private e-mail, I just don't feel this is the place to publisize thier name with regards to MY personal gripe. Maybe others have had better experiences. I don't know. I do know that the alleged knew and improved ribbon although an improvement in some ways, seems to have done little with regards to the initial problem. I still get intermittent signal on the aux send. I assume it is not on the return but I have not done a full test since to me the aux circuit is the aux circuit and whether send or return I only care if it works - period.

My advice, after all this amount to the following. Some people have Mackies with no problem and bully for them. I have a Mackie with problems. Therefore, they are not as "bullteproof" as many would have you believe> MORE IMPORTANTLY, in my humble opinion, Mackie mixers do not sound all that great. The sound is NOT terrible, however, it is also less than stellar and for top quality recorded sound, you might want to consider other options. First of course would be if you are using the mixer in a home studio for a DAW, you should evaluate whether you even need a mixer in the first place. If not, why degrage your saound with a cheap, consumer quality mixer. I am currently evaluating that decision myslef. The only reason you might want such a thing is for the purpose of recording live musicians, a few at a time for that matter, or for doing mixes. If you plan to mix in a larger commercial studio, you don't need the mixer. I realize that is an expensive lux¨ry but one that should ultimately be part of you decision.

Well, that is enough drivle for now...later...

[littledog]

I feel your pain, Jack. I've had problems with my 1604 VLZ, only in my case Mackie wouldn't even authorize repairs by any local shop - I had to ship it back to Washington. Even now one of my group busses doesn't work, but I'm using it for live work and can do without it because I don't feel like going through the repair hassle again.

There's a lot of annoying hype around Mackie products, it's true. Let's face it, no matter what we tell ourselves, low end is low end in mixers. When you think of how many components are in mixers: power supplies, mic pres, eq's, summing busses, faders, pots, headphone pres, phantom power, high pass filters, polarity reverse (oops - not on a Mackie!), jacks, meters, lights, chassis, silkscreening, (and advertising, of course) etc. and do the math, you realize that in order to keep the street price under $1000 a lot of these components can't end up costing the manufacturer more than a few cents apiece. So the fact that any of these mixers work at all is kind of amazing!

But it could be worse, Jack. Believe it or not, if you had bought a Behringer or an Alesis mixer, chances are you probably would be having even MORE problems!

[foo]

Thanks to all for the replies.

I decided to not go the mixer route for now. I think I can get it all done in the digital world (flame me now you Studer owners )

I guess if I find out I can't, then I'll be re-reading all of your input.

Thanks

foo

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by Chris Tondreau
There is a lot of rhetoric about Behringer stealing others' designs. As I understand it, with respect to mixers in particular, Mackie tried to sue Behringer because they felt that a certain mixer essentially stole their design. (one can't help wondering if the two mixers sounded the same, if Mackie was so convinced that their design was stolen....) An expert was called in, and reported that the Behringer mixer used a different circuitry design altogether, and the case was thrown out. Behringer responded with counter-litigation.

Well if they look the same but have completely different components inside then they must be just as good

That's the whole problem. They make their stuff look like some other well known product then fill it with crap components so people will think they are getting the same product just with lower cost.

[Just A Glance]

Ive had a Behringer MX602 since i was in 6th grade, and it was working great until just recently. I was not even using it, but in the same room and it caught on fire. I unpugged it fast and rushed it outside and blew on it until it was all better. Somehow it still works, but if i turn the mains up past halfway i get a real unpleasant humming sound.

I dont have hardly any cash so of couse my options are very limited, but I am looking to buy the 20 channel version of it. I was really happy with everything about it until the incident, but i would reccomend it to anyone who needs to get one on a budget.

[Sennheiser]

Eight pre's, and more in's and out's than you'll know what to do with. Also a dual function that allows 24 inputs.

That should read 16 nice sounding pre's. Not eight. I just caught that.

Question: Before Mackie came on the scene in the mid to late eighties or early nineties, what were some of the more popular mixers?

I thought for semi-pro to entry-level pro use that TASCAM pretty well had the market cornered. Is that true? Anyone know anything about that?

[Downside Studio]

A friend of mine runs a proaudio repair centre, and he has to tell almost all clients that come with the behringer mixers sad news. It seems that these boards consist of one big print with everything soldered to it. Which means that even a little defect potmeter will cost you more on research and repair that the console is worth. Not sure if this is the technical correct explaination, but bottomline is: The refuse to even accept behringer consoles for repair cause of there technical design.

Not judging the quality (good price/quality ratio, but an old oldsmobile of $100 has also a good price/quality and I wouldn't be driving that one on the highway), just telling some 'facts'


For a music school I bought this very low expensive little pa system, $500 dollar for a active yamaha mixerblock, 2 speakers, 2 behringer mics and all cables/statives. Works great for them.

[apostle]

What about Peavey?