dumb cable question

[FBstdminime]

please don't hurt me for this... i need trs cables to hook up from the inserts on mixer to my motu 1224 (8 tracks) and i was wondering if i bought 4 stereo balanced trs cable if i could use it to connect all of the channels (i.e. - left of first cable goes out of channel one from my mixer into channel one of 1224, and right of first cable goes from channel two on my mixer to channel two on motu.)

Thanks,
Eric

[SS454]

THe inserts on your mixer are unbalanced sends and returns. I think if you do that, you will be sending an unbalanced singnal to Chan 1 and no signal to Chan 2. Does you mixer have Buss outputs? I think that would be the correct place to output.
I hope I understood you correctly.

[FBstdminime]

the inserts on my mixer (mackie) are balanced.

[sjjohnston]

Originally posted by FBstdminime
the inserts on my mixer (mackie) are balanced.

Okay, that's it, I'm going to hurt you for that.

Actually, that might be true from some Mackie mixers (?), but the ones I'm aware of have unbalanced inserts. There's a TRS jack, sure, but it's not balanced. The tip is the send and the ring is the return.

There are three common ways TRS cables are used (two of which you, perhaps inadvertently, combined in the first post above):
- insert: tip=send and ring=return (sometimes the reverse)
- stereo: tip=left and right=right
- balanced: tip=signal(+) and ring=inverted signal(-) (on an "impedance balanced" output, ring wouldn't actually have any signal).

[FBstdminime]

okay, say i get an 8 buss console... the outs would be trs but i'd have to buy 8 separate trs cables?

[Track Rat]

If you patch from the the 8 buss outputs and you wanted to use them all simultainiously, yes. If you're using the inserts as direct outs, they ain't balanced so balanced cables wouldn't do you any good there.

[FBstdminime]

Why couldn't I buy 4 stereo trs cables? I must buy 8 mono?

[Even]

umm... 8 busses 4 holes? 8 busses 4 wires? 8 holes 4 wires? every hole gets a wire.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by FBstdminime
Why couldn't I buy 4 stereo trs cables? I must buy 8 mono?

Stereo and TRS cables are similar but the application is different. Forget about the term stereo.

8 mono cables can be balanced (TRS) or not (TR).
A 'stereo' cable, meaning a TRS cable is used to send 2 Unbalanced signals.

The Insert SEND on a Mackie is NOT balanced. It is a TRS jack but it sends and returns a UNBALANCED connection. So sending with a balanced cable won't work properly.

I don't know what the inputs on your Motu are. Most likely you will used unbalanced going from the inserts or balanced going from the Buss outs.

[FBstdminime]

Well now I've got a Sountracs Topaz and I'll be using the buss outs to the balanced ins on my motu 1224. I want to get 8 Mogami Gold Series mono balanced trs cables but I don't know where to find them. I've heard full compass is a good place but i still haven't received a catalog and am confused by the online one (not sure if they are gold series). Basically I just want high quality cables, so if someone could recommend a good place to find mogami gold cables or any other good brand, I would be very appreciative.

[M.Brane]

Try Markertek.

[FBstdminime]

Pre-made at markertek? All i ever see anywhere is stereo balanced trs. So confused...

[sjjohnston]

Originally posted by FBstdminime
Pre-made at markertek? All i ever see anywhere is stereo balanced trs. So confused...

You think you're confused ... what was your question again?

I've seen dozens of sorts of pre-made cables. Some examples:

TRS - TRS : use these for a single balanced signal; or carry two unbalanced signal on one cable ("stereo"). Note: it's either stereo or balanced, not "stereo balanced."

TS - TS : use these for a single unbalance signal. Lots of these in the world.

fXLR - mXLR : a mic cable. Usually used for a single balanced signal.

RCA - RCA
TS - RCA
TRS - mXLR
TRS - fXLR
TRS - 2 x TS : An insert cable (or a stereo splitter, if you want)
fTRS - 2 x TS
TRS - 2 x fTS
TRS - TS
DB25 - 8 x TRS
DB25 - 8 x fXLR
DB25 - 8 x mXLR
mDB25 - fDB25
mBNC - fBNC
TRS - fTRS : A "heaphone extension" cable.

etc.

[M.Brane]

A cable with a TRS jack at each end is just a TRS patch cable. It can either carry a single balanced signal, two unbalanced signals or send and return unbalanced. How it works depends on what you plug it into.

A balanced line requires 3 conductors. Unbalanced only 2. When you use a TRS as an unbalanced stereo send or mono send & return the two signals are sharing the common (-) connection.

When they put "stereo balanced" they could put a slash between the words so you know it's either and not both, but they probably assume you know the difference in your patch scheme.

[FBstdminime]

Ok, I just looked at my Soundtracs manual and it says that all of the outputs are unbalanced. So now I have to get unbalanced to balanced cables. When I look up trs-ts i usually get y cables (1 trs to 2 ts), which makes sense since everyone has told me that trs carries two unbalanced signals, however now I'm even more confused. How do I go about connecting this? Single unbalanced out to single balanced in. Is this possible? Or do I have to go on using incorrect cables...

[Track Rat]

Originally posted by FBstdminime
Ok, I just looked at my Soundtracs manual and it says that all of the outputs are unbalanced. So now I have to get unbalanced to balanced cables. When I look up trs-ts i usually get y cables (1 trs to 2 ts), which makes sense since everyone has told me that trs carries two unbalanced signals, however now I'm even more confused. How do I go about connecting this? Single unbalanced out to single balanced in. Is this possible? Or do I have to go on using incorrect cables...

You want unbalanced cables then. Just plain old TS type period. One per output you intend on using.

[FBstdminime]

So it doesn't matter that my 1224 has balanced ins? This won't effect my recordings will it?

[Track Rat]

No it won't affect the recording. The 1224 1/4" inputs are made in such a way to know the difference of what you're feeding it (balanced or unbalanced).

[FBstdminime]

Just curious... I know that you have a topaz also. What cables do you use?

[Track Rat]

I know Mr Q has a Topaz, I have a StudioMaster that I run with an HD24. All +4 balanced except the inserts which are unbalanced.

[FBstdminime]

Ok it seems that the manual and a website dedicated to giving info about the topaz are contradicting each other. Under the "Connections" section, the manual says:
Outputs to Balanced Devices: [It has a picture of a 1/4" cable. On the one side it says "From Console Main, Group, Tape, Aux, and Studio and CR Outputs (Mono 1/4" Jack)." On the right side of the cable it says "To Balanced External Device Input (Stereo 1/4" Jack)."]

On the website it says:
"In addition to the floating-bus scheme, Project 8 has eight dedicated Group Out jacks. The rest of the back panel contains eight TRS insert jacks for the groups, Aux 1-6 output jacks, four TRS stereo effects return jacks, control room A and B L/R jacks, studio L/R jacks, main L/R jacks, main L/R TRS inserts, monitor mix L/R jacks, 2-track A and 2-track B L/R input jacks, and connections for the outboard power supply..."

P.S. - I thank you for your help so far, Track Rat and others.

[sjjohnston]

Among other places, you might want to look at the fourth post in this thread, which is now over a month old:

... the ones I'm aware of have unbalanced inserts. There's a TRS jack, sure, but it's not balanced. The tip is the send and the ring is the return.

There are three common ways TRS cables are used (two of which you, perhaps inadvertently, combined in the first post above):
- insert: tip=send and ring=return (sometimes the reverse) ...

You want those "Y" cables with a TRS at one end and two TS's at the other end. They're often called "insert cables." Plug the TRS into the insert. Plug one TS into the input of whatever you're inserting. Plug the other one into the output.

One note: if the thing you're inserting has balanced inputs or balanced outputs, check it's manual. The connection described above should work, but the manual might tell you more. If you put a TS plug into a TRS jack, the following connections are made (first letter is jack, second is plug): T-T R-S S-S. Basically, you'd connect the "cold" input and the "cold" output to ground.

[FBstdminime]

So (please tell me I understand this now), the trs will go out of the mixer and the one ts jack will send (going into 1224 balanced in) and the other will return (going into 1224 balanced out). So a wise choice would be a trs (4) to ts (8) snake cable (like monster or the sort).

[sjjohnston]

Originally posted by FBstdminime
So (please tell me I understand this now), the trs will go out of the mixer and the one ts jack will send (going into 1224 balanced in) and the other will return (going into 1224 balanced out). So a wise choice would be a trs (4) to ts (8) snake cable (like monster or the sort).

Yes. Only issue with the snake is it might be a lot longer than what you want. But if it's the right length, go ahead.

[Even]

Jesus Christ! Now I know why MTV introduced the whole "unplugged" deal.......

All the guys sat confused in a web of wires, snakes and handbooks and the band got impatient.