warmest drum company/set

[punx_drummer]

Out of the following drums, which would have the warmest sound, or best quality(basically asking which set i should buy next)

[jitteringjim]

Out of the following drums, which would have the warmest sound, or best quality...

For a good warm sound, set your kit afire during the gig. The quality, however, may be fleeting.

That being said, I've always had a soft spot for Premier, though I don't own any.

[mikeh]

Ayotte!!!!

I have owned somewhere around 14-16 kits and have played dozens of other kits in studios, festivals, etc. and without a doubt, Ayotte (not to be confused with the lower line Drumsmith) has the most distinct and warm sound.

I had a chance to buy some at a huge discount about 3 years ago (I worked/work in a drum shop) I dragged my feet and suddenly we shipped out all the Ayotte kits (they now only sell on line). I still kick myself - Ayotte has the warmest drums I've heard in over 35 years of playing!!!

[donkeystyle]

i have a have that swears by pearls,but he says that tama's have better hardware..........i'm not a drummer and i'm also a newbie, so you can completely ignore me and it won't hurt my feelings..........

All i know is he has amazing drum sounds.........here's a direct quote "pearl have the best shells, but tams have the best hardware"

also, he works at a music store. one with experienced staff(i've heard people say bad things about guitar center and those kind of stores) He has extremely good recordings... ........i dunno that's just my 2 cents..................

i would say just don't go for one of those sets that comes with "drum sticks and an insruction video, all for $499.99!"

like i said before......i'm a newbie i can't be trusted : )

[elevate]

I think warmth is a property of particular varieties of woods, not a company.

[foreverain4]

have you checked out dw? www.dwdrums.com

[vaughn]

don't forget about gretsch. I hear it's kind of a crap shoot with their kits but they're great kits for great prices. pearl and tama kits use mostly mahogany for their shells, not a great wood for quality drums. tama does have great hardware but their shells again are not the best unless you buy the top of the heap kits like artstar and starclassic maple. yamaha's are pretty sweet and they make some killer snare drums too. go for maple or birch kits, they're very very warm and cozy. if you don't have a huge budget just get some aquarian or evans heads top and bottom, that will warm the kit up a LOT. also if you want to spend top dollar on the best snare drums go to www.dunnett.com

peace ~

[theletterq]

For the dollar, the Pearl Session Customs can't be beat. I switched from DW's (highly-overrated) to these about a year ago. They compare very favorably to the Pearl Masters (I did some side by side comparisons). The main differences are cosmetic and and accessories (die-cast hoops, stainless steel tension rods, lugs, etc.)

[mentil69]

definitely orange county

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by elevate
I think warmth is a property of particular varieties of woods, not a company.

I have to agree with that!
Now, I'm not a drummer, but here is what I have found:

IMO maple kits are going to sound loud, snappy and boomy. Great for live shows, but almost too over powering for studio applications.

Birch wood kits are going to give a nice full, warm sound without over powering a dedicated drum room in the studio.

Mahogany kits seem to fall somewhere in between the two.

I looked into a multitude of kits for the studio, and ended up buying a Tama Star Classic Birchwood Series.

[Ian Morrison]

SPAUN or GMS.

Only ways to go.

Im sick and tired of the peral drum sound.

[Ian Morrison]

Originally posted by theletterq
For the dollar, the Pearl Session Customs can't be beat. I switched from DW's (highly-overrated) to these about a year ago. They compare very favorably to the Pearl Masters (I did some side by side comparisons). The main differences are cosmetic and and accessories (die-cast hoops, stainless steel tension rods, lugs, etc.)

- The pearl sessions customs are ok if you dont want a 22x18 kick. if you do, Dw's highly overatted company (hahahahha) makes a line called Pacific drums, at 599.99 for the birch laquer kit, with the suspension mounting and 100% birch shells no hidden plys of poplor or basswood, its a huge deal.. and oh yeah, you get that nice 22x18 kick drum. And you'd wind up spending way less then on a pearl kit, by the by.. they also make a maple kit and those start off at around 800. For the 8 ply all maple shells.


No one has mentioned the type of room, maples and birchs are only inhibited by the drummer who tunes them and the room they set in. While they both have fundementally different pitches, i bet not one of you could pick the two out in a recording, because neither drum by itself is really all that drastically different. Its all in how you use them.




"IMO maple kits are going to sound loud, snappy and boomy. Great for live shows, but almost too over powering for studio applications. "





birch is said to have a little lower setting and a little less livelyness to them, more focus, a dense. less vibrating wood, while as maple is a lively drum. and sounds true and clear especially at higher pitches, whoever says maple has to sound boomy is a fucking moron and might wanna try gettin a clue or throwing a pillow in their kick drum! geez!


your opinion is stupid, and even today most recordings are done with maple kits, like.. every single country record nashville puts out basically, and all the numetal bands.. dont believe me? listen to the drum sound on the new korn album " untouchables"

you seem to be confusing " volume" with attack, this isnt a fucking guitar amp so there really isnt a " volume " knob per say. the birch kits fundementally have a darker more subtle attack making them seem " softer" but they're not all that much softer then maple, maple is just a bit bright if you want a " snappy " sound get a brass piccolo and stop being an idiot.


"Mahogany kits seem to fall somewhere in between the two. "

dont ever buy mahogany, terrible, terrible shells.

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by Ian Morrison

"IMO maple kits are going to sound loud, snappy and boomy. Great for live shows, but almost too over powering for studio applications. "

whoever says maple has to sound boomy is a fucking moron and might wanna try gettin a clue or throwing a pillow in their kick drum! geez!
your opinion is stupid, and even today most recordings are done with maple kits, like.. every single country record nashville puts out basically, and all the numetal bands.. dont believe me? listen to the drum sound on the new korn album " untouchables"

I did say it was MY OPINION, but I can show you plenty of studios that prefer birch kits. "Every single country record Nashville puts out" huh? You must sit in on ALL the Nashville sessions to know that!
Your personal attacks do nothing but ruin your credibility on this board.

...the birch kits fundementally have a darker more subtle attack making them seem " softer" but they're not all that much softer then maple, maple is just a bit bright if you want a " snappy " sound get a brass piccolo and stop being an idiot.

You're such an ass! Stop acting like a 15 year old kid. The question was which kit will sound warmer. I believe it'll be the birch kit. If you disagree, thats fine, state your reasons, and move on, but you call me a fucking moron and an idiot doesn't really add any insight now does it?
Geez, is grade school still out?
[/B]

[theletterq]

Originally posted by Ian Morrison
- The pearl sessions customs are ok if you dont want a 22x18 kick. if you do, Dw's highly overatted company (hahahahha) makes a line called Pacific drums, at 599.99 for the birch laquer kit, with the suspension mounting and 100% birch shells no hidden plys of poplor or basswood, its a huge deal.. and oh yeah, you get that nice 22x18 kick drum. And you'd wind up spending way less then on a pearl kit, by the by.. they also make a maple kit and those start off at around 800. For the 8 ply all maple shells.

That is odd, as my session custom kick is an 18x22. IN MY OPINION, DW's are overrated because they are another one of these "custom" drum companies that merely buy shells, cut bearing edges, finish them, and then charge an ungodly amount of money for them. I am just saying that the price you pay in no way justifies the product. I am not saying that they are bad drums at all. My biggest problem with the set I had, was with the reinforcement rings on the shell. They muffle the drums way too much. Others may like this, I do not.

Your opinion is valid as is everyones on this board, however the attitude with which you present it does not fit with the attitude of this board. This board is well known for it's friendly, helpful atmosphere. People will tend to quickly "tune out" your posts if they are worded contrary to this. Thank you for your input....

[TexRoadkill]

Ian is 19. Of course he knows everything

[mikeh]

I have owned 100% maple kits, 100% birch kits, kits that had plys of maple or birch mixed with plys of mahogany, falkata and/or basswood. I've also owned a couple of fiberglass/plexiglass kits.

I have found that for recording, the birch provided a more precise, focused tone (good in funk, pop and country/pop). The maple provided a "bigger", "deeper" tone (good in harder rock). The maple (tuned more "open") also works well for jazz.

The mahogany/falkata/basswood does not record as well but can provide good projection as live kits (when mixed with plys of maple or birch).

Obviously, the type of wood makes a difference in tone - as does number of plys, thickness of plys, type of mounting hardware, tuning technique, playing technique, room ambiance and probably a dozen other factors.

Hell, two drummers can play the same set and get different tone, based on thier ability to "pull" the tone out of a drum (vs. simply hitting the drum).

That being said, and based on the various posts on this thread - it is obvious there is no single right answer. So I'm sure we can all agree to disagree.

What I don't understand is the unreasonbly negative comments by Ian. Most of us on this site try to offer ideas, thoughts and suggestions in a positive manner without attacking individuals with suggestions that that are "stupid" or an "idiot"

Ian, you sem to have good fundamental knowledge of drums and woods, etc. and I suspect you have other very valid thought to share on this site, but why (in particular as a fairly recent member) must it be in such a negative manner???

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
Ian is 19. Of course he knows everything

Yeah, I saw his profile.
Guess I got carried away.
My bad.

[Ian Morrison]

I dont think you're an idiot, and i wasnt attacking you. I said your opinion is stupid, my opinion of yours is stupid. Why did I say that? cause i didnt agree with your thoughts on the subject. I appologize for coming off as being abrasive. I realize we havent spoke before so you would probably get atitude from it, I am 19. I am far from knowing everything, music is ageless though, and so is talking about what kind of drum sounds you want, its funny how you all skipped over my positive ideas..

I stand corrected, the session series does have the 18'' they did not when they first come out.

DW does not purchase their shells from anyone anymore, they used to buy from keller, as pearl does, tama and many other leading brands, i dont know what you call " ungodly" but i dont think they're overatted, due to their new shells that they " custom" make. They're not telling anyone how they do it, but the new series of dw's are amazing, and so are the timeless timber drums, the timeless timbers will run you around 3-4 grand, the collecters series is around 2-3. Depending on what you want.. they've been voted most innovative company but MD yet again. They always do some great things. Now, the PD drums i mentioned are made by them, reason being they use the old keller shells for them and throw on all the upgrades you mentioned find on more high-end kit, such as fast toms, suspension mounting and the like.

I have done a few sessions in nashville, im a recording engineer/producer and drummer. I also write songs for other bands as a " ghost writer" like rob thomas and such. Every kit i saw in nasvhille of the 15 studios i visted, all had ethier Yamaha Maple custom kits, or pearl mmx 4- ply maple kits..I havent seen many birch kits, but duh.. i know a lot of guys use them and I have heard countless recordings with them in them. I have worked with both. I dont care what anyone says, if you engineer an album to where you want it to sound, maple can be just as easy as birch. I hate people who try and say one is better then the other, thats not the case, they just present two different types of decay and attack. You can do whatever you want as long as you have the imagination to do so...



I really dont think you need to be any age to have an opinion, i will make a note to express it in a better more apporpriate manner then to just bust someones balls, I was just joking around with my talk of brass snares for being poppy and putting a pillow in your kick to stop boomy sounding drums all in good fun. Im truely sorry. Ill try and help where i can though you know, i have seen people go through the ringer every day on this forum, i dont post often but i read it daily.. But, I dont wanna be one of those people who does that to someone, i am fortunate to have had the opportuniys i've had and to have worked with who i have, enough to formulate my own ideas rather then just modeling someone elses. i wish everyone the best

be well and good will to all.

[theletterq]

I stand corrected as well. I wasn't aware that DW was now making their own shells. The set that I owned was seveal years old (pre STM mounts). I haven't personally (in person) heard the new DW's. I probably need to stop with my pseudo DW bashing, or say that I wasn't impressed with the DW's of several years ago.

Now that the particulars are out of the way, welcome to the board!

[F_cksia]

Modern drums; Ayotte, definitely.

But I still prefer vintage above all; SLINGERLAND! and Ludwig.

[pipelineaudio]

Drums are my specialty, recording wise..and Im not a drummer!

I would add some things to avoid

DONT buy a drum just because its the BIGGEST one you can find...if you buy big drums you HAVE to hit them hard, VERY hard. Ive had the (dis)pleasure of micing up many VERY expensive custom kits in my time, and I always cringe when its one of those giant sized ones with out a giant sized player...Big drums can sound GREAT, when theres some HUGE guy playing them

ABSOLUTELY dont: by drums with equal dimensions. If the kick is 22" deep, with a 22" diameter, and the salseman insists its good, leave the store and dont ever come back! These sizes of drums are just trouble and best to avoid them, unless you want to use them for testing the transient responses of microphones, or some weird non music related thing like that OR and this is a BIG or, you want to use them to trigger with

I gotta echo sonusman's DW concerns. I remember when the first few DW things were coming out to the main scene, and they were excellent...wonderful magical drums, easy to deal with and HHUGE sounding....then, I dont know WHAT happened! I havent seen a DW made in at least 5 years that was even worth putting a mic near...its weird, maybe they went big and let QC slip or something

Yamahas have always been easy for me, as well as everyday tama rockstars

Gretch is one of those cases where you buy one and it is UNREAL, then you buy another and it is a total POS. Same with SONOR.

Pearl usually has easy to deal with drums, but they get duds too

[morte sicura]

Also, the bearing edge (the edge where the head and the shell make contact) will play a role in the sound of the drum. A rounded edge will be "warm" and "soft" sounding - think vintage sounds. More modern drums usually feature any of several angle cuts, sometimes a combination of angles, and usually with a sharp edge very near near the inner wall of the shell. That is, most of the angled wood is on the outside of the shell. These sounds vary according to the cut, but generally the sharp edge will give a more "surgical" sound with a longer decay.

The head makes much less contact with the wood when the edge is sharp - it has much more contaxt with the shell when the edge is rounder (or if it is less precise, which is not really my recommendation). This affects the attack and resonance of the drum - more contact softens and rounds off the sound.

Think Dave Weckl or Carter Beauford for the sharp edges vs. Art Blakey or Billy Martin for the older, rounded edge sound, and keep in mind you can still have a softer edge on a new drum if you order from a company that does custom work.

Oh, and "traditional" shell depths - 8x12, 9x13, etc., and 14" deep bass drums will also lend to a "warm" sound, but of course you often see these sizes in older kits with less sharp bearing edges.

Andrew

[Son of Mixerman]

I cannot believe there was no delving into the tone that player has. Lots of variables in how hard, strike angle, head tensions..etc and in addition to the room around the kit can be very decieving. I started on Pearl's in the 70's and goofed around on a nice Yamaha back in 93-94 when I was playing guitar in a HM band. I must say it was better than alot of what I was used to.

SoMm