I missed the bus

[stray411]

I am confused and I'm hoping you guys can help clarify this for me. If I send a mono vocal track unpanned to a stereo bus is the same information on both the left and right sides of the bus? As far as I can tell, the answer is yes. I can hear no difference when I mute the right side of the bus and pan the left side to the middle as opposed to listening to both the left and right side.

The reason for this question (and this might be another question itself) is that I'm trying to get my vocals to sound like they are in the between my monitors. I've heard this on plenty of commercial albums and this is the result I'm looking for. Is this done using a surround mixing environment or can this be done with stereo?

Any help/advice here would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Stray

www.mp3.com/PerpetualProductio

[Sennheiser]

Yes it can be done in stereo.

You may be too close or too far away from your monitors to hear it, but at some distance your vocal will sound like it is right in the center of the field.

Experiment with your distance and you will find it. You should be able to close your eyes and think the singer is right in front of you.

Works for me anyway.

[stray411]

Sennheiser,

Thanks for the reply. Here's the thing: from where I'm sitting I can hear this on commercially produced CDs, but not on my own. It wasn't until I got a good set of monitors that I realized it. Basically with my mixes it sounds like the vocals are coming from both speakers rather than the illusion of coming from the middle.

Are there any tricks I might try to possibly overemphasize this effect? Would panning reinforcement vocal lines to either side detract from this illusion?

Thanks,

Stray

www.mp3.com/PerpetualProductio

[Sennheiser]

I don't understand why you are unable to hear it. I don't know of any tricks to improve it. It should work how I said it would.

Anyone else have an idea?

[regebro]

If you are the same signal to two correctly set up speakers it *will* sound like it comes from between the speakers. If this doesn't happen, something is wrong. The most common problem is that the speakers are out of phase. The second most common problem is that you aren't positions in an equilateral triangle with the speakers.

If you're speakers are correctly positioned, and the signalling is correct, then the only otehr reason I know about is that the speakers are somehow broken, but this would then be obvious from other ill effects.

[littledog]

Probably the other answers are closer to the mark, but I'm just trying to cover all the bases. It may be that what you are hear as different between the commercial CD and your own recording has to do with ambience. If there is a subtle amount of ambient reverb on the CD track that gives your ears some spacial information at the panning extremes, it may have the paradoxical psycho-acoustical result of "centering" the vocal.

Without actually hearing the phenomenon in person, though, I'm basically talking out of my ass on this one.

[crosstudio]

i think that is the key here (or should i say 'hear') LD.

the commercial CD's he's referencing probably have the lead vocal centered such that it feels like the vocalist position within the recording is 3 dimensional, whereas Stray411's vocals just sit there.

the answer (i think) is to use volume, panning & then reverb with the correctly dialed pre-delay to place the lead vocal in a 3D space that puts the listener in the 'front row' of a stage.

but first... get the vocals recorded correctly such that the room you are recording in doesn't prevent you from putting the vocal into the correct space.

[barefoot]

Stray,

The Qsys plugin from Qsound does a great job of localizing mono tracks. It can make things sound "hyper-centered", or you can place them anywhere else in the stereo field, even out beyond the speakers. The effect is lost to those not sitting directly between the speakers, but the sound quality doesn't degrade. It also has decent mono compatibility.

Another issue might be your monitors and/or room setup. Monitors with unmatched responses will never give a solid stereo image. Reflections and asymmetry in your room can also blur your imaging.

barefoot

[stray411]

Thanks fellas I figured it out. I failed to mention that I haven't had this problem before, it is only occuring with a mix I'm currently working on.

The effect I had on the lead vox was causing this because it was a stereo effect that was sending different information to the left and right channels. I bypassed the effect and there the vocals were, right in the middle.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, they did help in solving the problem.

Stray

www.mp3.com/PerpetualProductio

[Sennheiser]

No sweat. I have a MidiVerb IV and have to pay attention to which effect or effect chain that I'm using too depending on if it's a mono source like a vocal or stereo like drums or acoustic guitar.

I have to watch for the correct indicators on the LCD.