Thoughts on this article from Rush fans or those who think "Loud" has gone too far?

[Cuzin B]

Check this out from ProRec.

I think Rip hits it right on the mark...

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/article...256C2E005DAF1C

Cheers,

Cuzin B

[caretaker9]

Good article; that needed to be said!

[BrettB]

Like all trends in our society also this will go up and down. the loudness will disappear slightly, as people start to grow weary about those dreadfully live mixes, and once those loud mixes are out, suddenly theu start being in cool again.

And so it goes on. Good music in the early 90's rescued us from dreadful 80's stuff, now we need a new boost to rescue us from the louzy music in te charts

[Seanmorse79]

F A N T A S T I C A R T I C L E I T S G O O D T O S E E P E O P L E T A L K I N G A B O U T I T

[Track Rat]

I've been bitching about this for the last few years. What drives me especially crazy is when I give a band a finished mix and I hear the dreaded "it's not as loud as my (insert thrash band name here) CD.

[rushfan33]

HMMMMMM!

[Sennheiser]

Tell 'em to turn the big knob to the right.

[Johnboy Walton]

MAN! Everytime I stop going to ProRec when they have no new stuff for a while, they put up something like this. It's a KILLER article, and it really hits on a problem that is getting to be epidemic today.

I actually made a comment about this a few weeks ago, and I also included the Offspring "Conspiracy of One" album in my rant. What I noticed about the Rush album was that I could listen to it in my car at a low volume and not mind. But I could only handle about 3 songs at home before the distortion drove me INSANE! And as Rip said, I do mean DISTORTION! On some vocal passages, every time a tom fill hits, the vocals distort like a cheap stomp box.

I can now add the new Papa Roach album to this list, as well. I was listening to it a couple nights ago, and the first song, M80, was just an over-compressed, over-limited, distorted, crappy mess. My worst mixes had better definition that this.

I suffered through "M80," just to see if the album had any redeeming music on it. The next song that came up (don't remember the title), was absolutely fine!!! No massive compression, no messy distortion - nothing. Yep, it was quieter, but as Rip pointed out, the first song was so messed up and distorted that I really didn't listen; it had no subtlety. The second song sounded so much clearer and more open that it was like listening to a different record!

I think I know why this is, and why I can't even remember the 2nd song's name. That first song is just SO hard rockin' in the label's eye (it is a strong song), that they figured it would be a single and would need to be loud enough to compete. The second song, since it seems musically weaker, was left un-destroyed since it was assumed no one would hear it 'till after they bought the album.

I honestly believe this to be the case. And as such, I'm going to send a plaitive cry to anyone writing good music - just record it! If it doesn't sound like the big-boys - GOOD! Please DON'T make it sound like that! I did one mix a while ago that got panned for being too thin. Either way, when it was done, you could obviously hear the difference in sound quality (not just loudness) between 1.5dB and 3.0dB of Waves L1+ Ultramaximizer. And to be honest, both sounded worse than the original.

I guess I'm just begging people to turn off their limiters. I mean, heck - when I'm in the car, I turn it up and down CONSTANTLY so I can hear the quieter parts without getting deafened by the chorus. I'd hope others would do the same with my music.

Like Sennheiser said, "... turn the big knob to the right."

[rushfan33]

I'm still pondering on this one! On a sad note...... Rush is about 5 miles away from me right now as we speak. They are playing here tonight and tomorrow. I can't fuckin' go! Oh.....whoa is me.

[Johnboy Walton]

That BITES!!! I saw them in Mass this year and it was a great show! For "Ghost Rider" they had all these still shots of a motorcycle parked in all these cool places - really powerful. Why can't you make it?

On another note, what exactly are you still pondering? If you've listened to the new album in a quiet place, you must have heard the distortion on the vocals, no? Doesn't it bug you just a little?

Johnboy

[Michael Jones]

I haven't listened to Rash, I mean Rush, since, well, I think Hemispheres was the beginning of their downfall. Everything before that was pretty good.

But you all had me curious, especially after reading that article, so I went out and got Vapor Trails. I have to agree, they've gone WAY too far! It is fatigueing to listen to more than a couple of songs!

I was ready for a good test too. I set my CD player at a volume I thought was comfortable to listen to, then pluged in the Rash CD, and it blew the windows out!

The sad thing is, the general listen public was little to no idea about this autrocity.

Oh well.
Flavour of the month I suppose.
Things will change. Again.

[rushfan33]

Originally posted by Johnboy Walton
That BITES!!! I saw them in Mass this year and it was a great show! For "Ghost Rider" they had all these still shots of a motorcycle parked in all these cool places - really powerful. Why can't you make it?
On another note, what exactly are you still pondering? If you've listened to the new album in a quiet place, you must have heard the distortion on the vocals, no? Doesn't it bug you just a little?
Johnboy

Well..... I had to ponder on whether it was a "bad thing" done by the masterng guy or something the band was going for. They like to try new sounds from album to album so I listened to it over and over. "One Little Victory" sounds so compressed that I can almost hear the "pumping" of the snare. Yeah I guess I have to agree that the sound isn't too happenin'. I think Paul Northfield also did a lousy job recording it! Neil has no signature feel anymore on this CD. Even Test for Echo captured his "essence". Yeah I'm a little pist now! There are some very good elements to this CD and I'm falling in love with the songs and the growth of their playing but the sound is driving me nuts!

The reason I couldn't go was because my wife just had a baby like 3 days before. He wasn't due until after the concert date. He decided to come a little early..... bless his little heart!!

Michael, how can you say that everything after Hemispheres was no good? They kicked some major ass even in the 90's. Damnit....take back the "rash" statement!!

[pipelineaudio]

I think I made myself pretty clear on this crap

it SUCKS!!!!\

treble deaf people who dont know what a volume knob is have ruined music...or maybe its the fear of silence??? who knows...but why even bother making good recordings when theis is what happens ???

last few years I have REALLY began doubting my " career " choices

[MONTE]

Maybe it's a ticket sales ploy? I love Rush and I was not only disappointed when their last effort came out, I was downright pissed off. I didn't think it was possible to make 3 such skilled and experienced players sound that shitty unless that was your intention. Anyway...I bought tickets to see them live on Nov. 1st so I can hear how the new stuff is SUPPOSED to sound! (19th row/dead center)

[Raticus]

Nice article....

[Myx62]

I still don't get it... We put each others stuff down for over compresssing some of our songs(Im guilty) like we know what were doing and the Industry norm is to well overcompress not to mention anti technique music... whats worse is these bastards are highly esteemed and payed well... I read a book a while ago called "Off the charts" and it explained a lot of what happened to the music industry past the early 90's. It went to shit..... It was taken over by suits and ties. The A&R people have no Idea of what good music is. Now maybe a few listened to Pink Floyds Dark side of the moon and liked the song Money so we still have a few new bands that are decent, but The old bands like Rush , one of my favorites by the way, shouldnt have to fall for the industry bullshit going on.... I would like to see the newer music and bands slip away from the industry and somehow make it without them. I know I will give it a shot..... Just my peeon opinion.
Myx

[Chibi Nappa]

That was a great article indeed. It made me back off and re evaluate my own mixes, and I think I'm better for it.

You know, car sterios and boom boxes should probably have a compression/limiter knob. They have bass knobs for people who like to ruin their mixes with too much bass. Give them a knob to ruin their mixes with to much loudness, and leave the actual CD unharmed for the rest of us.

[rushfan33]

You know, car sterios and boom boxes should probably have a compression/limiter knob.

Actually...nowadays they need a "De-compression Knob"!

I used to have an 91 Camero RS (nice damn car!!) and the stock radio did have a compression button on it. It made a big difference in the sound.

RF

[James Argo]

...I doubt very seriously if any engineer actually wanted to do this to the music. No, only the decision of a record label executive could destroy music like this.

What a shame. What a crying shame.

When the decision was made, the record label executive was hanging out for pizza. They have nothing to do with it. I have a proof and life witnesses here, I interogated 'em. RIAA was on charge. I suspect 'em. Rumor says they related to Bin Laden. Jeesss...

Great article.

[Brad]

LOL! Quite honestly, I thought my ears were starting to go bad (or, should I say "starting to go WORSE") I am a bit relieved to read this article and realize that I am (we are) not alone in hearing this problem. Great article.

I took some cues to a mastering house not too long ago. I didn't know until I got there that the engineer's catch phrase was "The Loudest Mastering in L.A." Fuck, I thought that would be great. And honestly, sitting there in his studio, it sounded pretty good. As soon as I got home and popped my CD in my home stereo - WHAT THE FUCK? I thought the bastard switched discs on me or something. Sounded like shit. Needless to say, I will never do business there again. I complained to the guy. I remember right after this experience, I visited his web site where the phrase "Loudest Mastering in L.A." was all over the place. Just now, after reading this article, I found his website again. No more catch phrase - now, in much smaller print, it says "We can master your project loud, if that is what you're after..." HA!

Anyway, this came up again when my girlfriend bought the Jack Johnson CD recently. She took it with her the next day to listen in the car on the way to work. She calls me from work and says "Can we go back to blah blah record store tonight? I got a bad CD" I asked her what was bad about it and she said it sounded like dogshit (her exact words, hehehe). So I took the CD into the studio and saw that the thing was just way too fucking loud. I mean, I good get it sounding okay on my studio monitors, but the thing just went to hell when you put it on a consumer system. I told my girlfriend that it was just mastered too loud, and she said "Why would they ruin it like that?" I had no answer for her. I am going to forward this article to her.

So, yeah, it's about time someone said something. I was glad to see that mastering house's website changed their ways about pimping the loudness. Let's hope it catches on.


Brad

Loudness is not just a bad Japanese metal band anymore...

[Emeric]

what?

[Brad]

What what?

[goldenboy]

The whole issue of Louder being Better,
makes it worse on an independant musician.
If I am being paid to do a product for someone, they want the product up to industry standards. What a joke....I have had countless projects (in my opinion) ruined because of this.
Whatever happened to dynamics??
Back in the day an acoustic guitar intro by a band like metallica would be quieter and when the band kicked in...VIOLA...BALLS.

[pipelineaudio]

I record and mix my way. And then tell the client to take it to the mastering lab, and if they want to ruin it there,fine..I still keep copies of the undestroyed 2 tracks for a time when sanity kicks in

[geekgurl]

I happen to also be a Rush fan, more of yore -- though Michael, I don't think their DOWNFALL was until, say, Presto ...

But I like some songs I heard off Vapor. I have this friend over right now, he's watching the World Series with my husband (Bay Area, Go Giants ...) and I showed him the article. Interesting. A non-audio guy but such a Rush fan he's gone on pilgrimages to places in Canada where he knows members are from, spent time in, etc. His devotion to the band far eclipses mine ... I asked him first, "What do you think of Vapor trails?" His response: "Oh, .... it's alright."

"What don't you like about it?"

"It has no punch," he settled on, after struggling with how to describe such sonics the way non-audio-engineers do.

The general public hears this shit. It's not just musicians and engineers who know this kind of processing is unnatural. It's the sonic equivalent of a Twinkie, or Wonderbread. Really, we all know it's made up.

He was pissed when I showed him the wave forms.

And I want to add that, my favorite Rush album of ALL TIME has to be Hemispheres ... Right after that, Moving Pix. The thing is, when you listen to old Rush, their art-prog-rock days, you understand dynamics are a huge part of who they are. They're not Incubus! It's not pop-metal! This mastering style is ill-suited to them.

It's like in some Back Room, the record mooks have 5 mastering algorithms they plug everything into based on genre ... like those cheap boom boxes that offer up EQ presets such as "Jazz" and "Rock" and "Country" ... well, THANK YOU for tellin' me jest how Ah Lahk ta Hair Mah Moozik ... Cuz I's too Stoo-pid ta figger out mah-selfs ...