how to protect my songs

[renegadegrizz]

I have some great songs,how do I go about saving them so no one else can copy and sell as there own,

[Recording Engineer]

Browse around in this forum.

[monty]

Yo Weston. I rooted around a bit but didn't come up with much. I checked the Library of Congress and came up with the 3 required elements and $30. I was told once that by sending yourself a cassette in the mail, and not opening the mail, would protect whatever was on the cassette. Is that BS?

[Buck62]

The mail thingy is a cute (and old) idea, but not suggested.
Use FORM SR (for sound recordings) and send it to the Library of Congress.

[Recording Engineer]

Yeah, go to the Library of Congress web-site to get exactly how to go about doing this. I know what to do, and would tell you all the details, but why when it's all right there at their web-site? But the jist of it is:

Who ever writes the words and melodies (per song) is the one(s) who should own the PA copyrights. Nothing else can be copywritten in the PA form. Of course this is the money
maker.

Anyone who performs in a recording should be included in owning the SR copyrights.

[Recording Engineer]

Oh, and the mail-to-self thing is really just for temperary use so you have some kinda proof while the legal copyright is going through. By the way, the mail-to-self thing doesn't mean sh*t in court.

[dondottcomm]

You can get the forms at your library...that is where I got mine once, they have them in the Goverment section ..ex..where they keep things like tax codes ,you can photocopy from the book of copywrites .This might help to get the forms quicker.But the website sounds like a good idea to get a understanding of the prosess

[dobro]

Okay, what about:

* Uploading the song(s) to MP3.com? Wouldn't that be copyright proof?

* Sending a dozen CDs of your songs to a dozen different people you know and trust, with a cover letter telling them to make a note of the date because they're your copyright witnesses.

In other words, making your songs public in a way that lots of people notice. Doesn't that cover you?

[Recording Engineer]

You can download/print forms right from their web-page.

All that doesn't mean sh*t in court. And if it doesn't mean sh*t in court, then why even do any of those things?

[hixmix]

The ONLY way to copyright your material is to register it with the Copyright Office.

[Rev E]

Recording Engineer,

I've gotta add a correction to an earlier comment. The people who play on the recording do not necessarily have rights to the SR copyright. The SR copyright is a copyright acquired by the person(s) or company that is releasing the recorded material to the public by sale, lease, rent, gift, etc. The SR (short for "sound recording" is owned by the record label). The record label, in my mind, is the person or "organized" group of persons who finances, markets and sells the recorded material.

If all of the members of a band put their money together and paid EQUALLY for studio time/gear and EQUALLY contributed monetarily and timewise to the business of selling the record, then YES they all should theoretically have rights to the SR copyright. However, if I'm using my gear to record songs that I wrote (all lyrics and melody structure) where I am financing the marketing/selling of the product and I just simply ask or pay friends to record on my record... The person who should file for the SR copyright is Me.

Let me give you an example and individual situations can be further derived from this common example. Say a rapper/producer samples some music for a rap song. The rapper's record label (or the rapper if he is an independent artist) must obtain permission and arrange payment for the use of the material with the publisher/songwriter of the material AND the record label that put the material out (e.g. Columbia, Arista, etc..).

In this case the publisher owns the copyright for the lyrics and music (filed using a Form PA). The record label owns the original sounds on the record (filed using Form SR). So a sampling artist must make arrangements with BOTH companies to use the material. Sometimes these companies (the publisher and record label) are the same people. But, sometimes they aren't.

The bottom line: If someone wants to just protect their songs, just put all of the songs on a cassette/CD, type out the lyrics to all the songs, fill out the Form PA copyright form and send it in with $30. You can have multiple songs under the same copyright (it's called a compilation). Just title the form... My Name Compilation X.

If someone wants to release their material for COMMERCIAL sale or transfer, they should send the CD/cassette that will be sold and $30 to the copyright office. This time, the Form SR should be filled out. The copyright office will ask for 2 copies. In this case you should send your CD/cassette after you got it back from duplication. (Basically the best version of the CD that will be out for public consumption)

I hope this helps. Sorry to be so long, but copyright issues are complicated and required lengthy explanation.

[monty]

Good stuff here. I just printed the whole page to save for when I'm ready to get rich and famous.

[Recording Engineer]

Rev E:

First-off, I hope you don't get a contract with a label anytime soon in fear that you might let them royaly (no pun intended) screw you up the ass because you signed over all your publishing to them. With the above attitude, you're bound to get screwed.

Second, this is homerecording.com. Most people here won't be dealing with labels.

And even if they were; when it comes to labels, who owns what and what percentage of what is all in an artist's contract with the label. Don't be fooled along with so many others that you sign over most or all your publishing simply because you think it's "standard"; nothing's standard now days with all the various types of indi labels, self-producers, and home/project studio owners, etc.

Yeah you'll give some-up; depending on how much of the up-front work/cost and risk is taken-on by the label. But hold on to as much as you can. The more you do on your own and the more you are in "demaned", the better your contract is going to be. If you really have something, hold-out for the best possible contract offered.

[Buck62]

Recording Engineer is absoloutely right.
There is no "set standard" anymore in the music business, as far as rights to songs, record labels, etc.
My partner and I have recently talked to ASCAP reps, who stated that you don't even have to have a record label to release your music.
Listen to what I'm saying here, because this is the BEST possible advice you'll ever get in regards to retaining ALL the rights to your own music....
Record it yourself, publish it yourself, register with ASCAP or BMI (musicians unions) and let them collect your royalties. That's the way to make the most money for yourself, without publishers and record labels taking a huge chunk of the profits.
Like Recording Engineer said... nothing is "standard" anymore.
Also, Rev E is wrong about "everyone who plays on it and contributes money for gear" gets credit for the song...that is NOT correct.
The person or persons who came up with the chord progression, melody and the lyrics (whether it was one person or co-written) is/are the author(s). Technically, the song is copyrighted from the first time you have it written and arranged. Recording it and sending it to the Library of Congress is the "guarantee" that you are the author(s).
Everyone else who plays on the recording are just considered "musicians for hire", which is also listed on the copyright form.
I mean, you write this killer song... music, melody, and lyrics... then you arrange it and produce it. Does your drummer (who can't even spell the word "cat") deserve songwriting credit and 25 percent of the profit for putting a beat on it?
Absoloutely not! He is a musician for hire!
Look, I'm in the process of finishing up a 10 song CD of original music, and I've been talking with ASCAP, BMI, entertainment lawyers, independent promoters, and other people in the music business. I don't claim to know everything, but we're striving to put out our music on a national and possibly an international level, while retaining as much of our own rights and maximum profits as we can possibly get. Isn't that the point of it all?
Let's beat the "big boys" at thier own game. To hell with the greedy middlemen.

[dobro]

Gee, Monty, why wait? Aren't you ready now?

[Rev E]

Recording Engineer,

I think that you guys misunderstood me totally.

My comment was simply to let you know that just because someone plays on a record that doesn't mean that they own a piece of the copyright. If I asked you or paid you to record a keyboard part on my record where I already composed the song, you don't own anything. That was simply my point. Because your earlier comment was misleading. It seemed that you implied that every member of a band owns a stake in the copyright simply because they played on the record. This is just not so. There may be members of the band who did not contribute to the songwriting process (lyrics or MELODY) and simply played. These members do not automatically have copyrights because they played on the tune. They may be entitled to royalties from the sale of the records, but not songwriter royalties (an entirely DIFFERENT royalty). That's my point.

My next point. If an independent band has not organized as a corporation, LLC or otherwise, the law views the entity of the band as a partnership (or sole proprietorship if it's just a solo artist) when they put out their record. The IMPLIED relationship (if no other agreement exists) is that each will EQUALLY contribute to the financing of the recording and will EQUALLY share it the profits. So whether they like it or not, the law views any person or group of persons as a legal business entity. That's all a label is - a business entity.

My point is that even if a band is putting out their own CD, the function of the band should not be confused with the functions of their independent label. As weird as it sounds the band is merely a product that the label sells. The functions of any label, independent or otherwise, require money to promote, market and manufacture records. In an ideal sense a smart band should pay themselves a percentage of records sold and put the rest of the money in another account to be used to keep the "record label" end of things running.

When you read this and understand fully, I have more to say about the possibility that all of the band members may not contribute equally to the label functions.

Rev E

[gibs]

It is SO easy to copyright your work. Read the info and download the forms at www.loc.gov/copyright
If you are an unpublished artist, the short forms PA does nicely. It will take months to get your final copyright notice in the mail, but the postmark on the package you sent to the copyright office will keep you safe. Don't mail stuff to yourself, it doesn't hold up. Hixmix is correct, the only way to be protected is thru the copyright office. Yes you can put more than one song on some of the forms (this saves the 30 dollar fee for each, but makes it harder to find a specific song...)
Now, after you're protected, feel free to get abused by publishers/labels if you get that far. Don't sign anything (other than copyright forms from the government) until you talk to a real live entertainment lawyer. If you wing it, read the fine print...gibs

[This message has been edited by gibs (edited 03-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by gibs (edited 03-13-2000).]

[monty]

Dobro...Ya, I'm ready to get rich, but don't think I'll be ready to be famous until my next lifetime.

[Rev E]

I'm going to just go ahead and add my final point before things get either confused or out of hand.

My next point has to do with two different copyrights, PA and SR. Before I do this let me give some background on myself. I have an Masters of Business Administration with a concentration in Business Law. I have recorded an independent project and work as a producer on some of my friend/client's projects. I'm not doing this to impress anyone, I'm just letting it be known that I didn't just arrive at my information. It's been a combination of experience, study and asking questions.

Copyright Form PA - This is your standard everyday copyright. To register this copyright, you simply type out the lyrics and either record the song on tape/CD or write out the chart in music notation. Send the completed form in with $30 to the US Office of copyrights. This registration allows the writer to have a public record of copyright and allows, if someone infringes of that copyright, the songwriter to sue for Actual damages (i.e. the amount of money that people actually made off selling the infinged work) AND Punitive damages (i.e. basically a songwriter's "pain and suffering"). This copyright can only be registered by the actual songwriter(s).
... What is Copywritten in this case? Answer- the lyrics and the melody.

Copyright Form SR (sound recording)
This form is filled out the person(s) or company that is releasing the material. Remember from my last post that if a band gets together and releases material, the law views them (if they haven't organized as a corporation, LLC, Limited partnership, etc) as a PARTNERSHIP. So this form COULD be filled out by the SAME person(s) who is the writer. However, it CAN also be filled out by the LABEL. Remember, the function of a label (even if the label is just the band) is legally different from the functions of the band. Send in 2 copies of the CD/cassette that will be sold commercially and $30.

What is copywritten in this case? The recorded event, the fixing of those sounds on a medium. Unless the songwriter himself/herself filed this form, this doesn't imply ownership of expressed lyrics or melody. SR registration simply implies ownership of the fixing of the sounds on a recordable medium.

???? If I am the songwriter(s) and the musician(s) who will be putting this material out, can I just file form SR?
Yes. However, the US Office of Copyrights wants the version of the CD/cassette/record that will Actually be sold (don't just send in a Sony cassette with the tracks on it, send in 2 copies of the finished CD/cassette with the graphics, printed shell, etc).

????? Why can't my band just fill out the form PA and just leave it at that? Why should we pay for registration two times?
You CAN just pay for just the PA and you'll still be protected. However, the Form PA only protects the illegal fixing of the lyrics or writing of the melody in music manuscript.

Form SR actually protects the actual sounds. To save money, an independent songwriter(s) who is putting out their own record could just wait until their finished CD/cassette has come back from duplication, fill out the Form SR, send in two copies and the $30 fee. Doing it this way allows you to have the same protection as the Form PA and Form SR for half the price.

????? Does the filing of the Form SR mean that someone who didn't write the song gets songwriting credit?

No. The credit and copyright credit goes to the songwriter and the publisher. If the songwriter IS the publisher, then the credit goes to that songwriter. Look on your CD liner notes, you'll see "(c) John Songwriter, 2000 or XXZ Publishing. The owners of the SR (sound recording) copyright are denoted by (p) John Songwriter or XYZ Records.

??? Why two different registrations?
Although independent songwriter/artists do not usually have this complication, in the commercial world the songwriter may be a different person from the artist, who is different from the publisher, who is different from the record label. Each party has protections given by law... i.e. the writer/publisher wants to protect against illegal copying of his/her lyrics and melody. The label/artist wants to protect against illegal sampling, recording or duplication or editing of their recorded sound masterpiece. That's why there are two different forms.

So back to an example that I gave in an earlier post. If Jack Rapper/producer wanted to sample music from a recording to put on his rap CD, he would have to negotiate a license with BOTH the songwriter/publisher AND the record label. In the commercial world these two entities could be totally different (i.e. Peermusic Publishing, Geffen Records). If an songwriter/artist or band put out their own CD these two entities are the SAME, so only one license has to be negotiated.

I know the post is long, but their is rarely a two sentence way to explain these issues. Even still, I've only covered the surface of possiblities. Food for thought... What if a band recorded and released a CD and everyone shared in the songwriting duties. If this band changed members and someone samples the band's music, does the newly formed band have the right to negotiate a license for someone to use the old sound material without consulting the departed members?

Rev E

[This message has been edited by Rev E (edited 03-13-2000).]

[hixmix]

Call your attorney.

[This message has been edited by hixmix (edited 03-13-2000).]

[Buck62]

Rev E....
The answer to your last question is "no". All former members/writers must be included in the negotiations.

Also, you are correct in everything you posted above except for one thing.
I would NOT wait until the mastered and duplicated CD was finished before I copyright the songs, and here's why....
During the mastering process, someone else (probably someone you don't know personally) is going to be hearing your material over and over again.
During the duplication process, more strangers are going to hear your "unprotected" material.
Because most duplication jobs are sent out of your home state, and it isn't completed for several weeks, you leave yourself wide open for people to steal your material.
I strongly suggest sending the copyright office your best mix as soon as it's finished and ready to be mastered. It's the safest way to go.
Unfortunately, people steal things.
Good songs are no exception.

[Recording Engineer]

Rev E:

I have a feeling you're the one who misinterpreted or misunderstood, or misread what I wrote; you may want to re-read what I've said. I already knew ALL that of which you have written here and how to go about doing it all; a lot of which I've done as well.

What I had previously written here in this thread is very short and sweet because I already posted this type of info here in the forum and in others with quite a bit of detail. Hence, my first response to this thread.

[Recording Engineer]

http://homerecording.com/ubb-cgi/sea...Engineer&Exact Name=yes&File=temp-2451623-030022-6HG5.cgi&Total=4&StartAt=A:000003

[JONRAVEN]

hey there guys I think I have what you need and it's free! Write up a contractual type agreement that states that you wrote such and such a song on such and such a date and get two witnesses to sign it stateing when the first time they heard you play the song...this also means that you should always play your new songs for atleast two people you ttrust whenever you write and record them... then get them to sign the form at the same time! This is legal in court and also I think you should know something about copyright....You own the copyright of a work as soon as you create a hard copy of the work! What you have to do is register that you are the owner of that copyright. This can be done by the PA form from the library of congress or by calling your local intellectual properties office for more info! Hope I was of some help!