**Making Your Beats Full Sounding???

[Raydio]

Whatsup everyone. I've been making beats for over 3 years now, and every now and then I come up with a hott full beat, but majority of the time Im stuck with a simple sounding beat. My drum patterns are full, and they have kicks, hi hats, shakes, snares, and even some bells. That aint da hard part though. I listen to the Neptunes and other producers and I see how full their beats sound. When I think of basslines in my head, and put the basslines and melodies with the drums, they dont sound full at all, and sometimes they dont even go with the drums once their recording. My beats are very bassy so I dont think bass is my problem here. Some people tell me chords make the beats sound full, but some artist dont even use chords. Ive been trying to get that Timbalandish sound; like on that one Tweet single. He didnt use really no hi hats or nunnin and it sounded full.

Really my question for all of you is, what do you guys do to make your songs sound full. Special effects? Chords? A lot of bass? Melodies?

[Devilfire]

Its The Mix !!
thats the trick ,the use of effects and correct levels will show you a big difference in your music

Here's what you do

1-Mix your music the best you can, with DECENT moniters
(levels-reverb-chours-eq)

2-Make adjustments to your stereo mix (more eq,effects,etc)

3-Compress your stereo mix to give it a UPFRONT/PRO sound

these are basics that will help you mix 100%

TIP:Chours effect will give a sound more presence

[SPINSTERWUN]

Where ya' at in CHI'?

[Devilfire]

New York

[SPINSTERWUN]

Sorry about that, Devilfire. I was directing the question to Raydio.

[Devilfire]

my fault .......

[Raydio]

Im on the Southside Spin, in the Hyde Park area; where are you?

[SPINSTERWUN]

I'm just west of you in Englwood on 59th St.

I used to live in Hyde Park.....

on 53rd and Harper

on 54th and Ellis

on 52nd and Woodlawn

[SPINSTERWUN]

Originally posted by Raydio
.....
Really my question for all of you is, what do you guys do to make your songs sound full. ....

http://www.manleylabs.com/containerp...asspass99.html

http://www.marquetteaudiolabs.com/eli.html

http://www.avalondesign.com/vt737sp.html

http://www.apogeedigital.com/index2.shtml

This is ALL that you'll need. I won't give out anymore trade secrets.

[Raydio]

Thanks Spin for the tips, sorry for da lil double post thang, just had to get a lil info. Hey, since you live close; we should collab on some ish. Im sure I got some hot material that you could probably make better sounding. Im a college student in the Chi now so I got time basically. Email me at lilraydio@aol.com; I also sent you an email. Peace! Anybody else got tips!!!???

[Raydio]

Im still having problems with making my stuff sound full on a budget. Spin posted links, but that stuff cost thousands!!!! I think I should be more descriptive with my problem. Im sure its not in the quality of my compressors where the problem is, but in my production. I wanted to know some production techniques that can fill up the song. Like I hear different elements in songs by for example............... Timbaland. I hear like lil sweeping sounds and stuff, but how do you just go about knowing where to place these sounds. Man, basically its just a production question, more than hardware. Im just wondering how "Grinding" by The Clispe & The Neptunes was so full sounding. Help me out yawl!

[stray411]

Raydio,

I'd have to agree with what has already been said, with synths and samplers you really need to thicken the mix using reverbs, EQs, compressors, etc. You'd be suprised how much of a difference processing makes.

In reference to production methods used to thicken things up there are a few things you can try. First, techniques differ depending on the track you're doing and the instrumentation you're using. Sometimes just bass, drums and a piano/guitar line is enough. Other times you may go balls out with string arrangments and/or some crazy synth programming.

You said you're good on bass, which is good because this is where sounds alone usually fall short. Try using layers on melodic instruments like piano for example. Instead of using 1 piano patch, use 2 that compliment each other. Like a house piano, which is pretty bright and high sounding and then a piano+strings patch, which is usually a little darker and more fullbodied. But you can use layers on all types of instruments, this is just an example.

You said sometimes the bassline and drum line don't match up when recording. This should never be the case, you always want the drum and bass line to be pretty tight with each other and compliment each other. These are the meat and potatoes of your groove and if they don't work together the beat will suffer.

All other rhythmic components should support the bass and drums. Melodic elements are another story because they don't have to follow the rhythm of the rest of the track. Best thing I can say on melodies is experiment.

Hope this helps,

Stray

www.mp3.com/PerpetualProductio
http://www.nowhereradio.com/perpetua...ctions/singles

[Raticus]

Biggest element to making your beats sound full is starting with good sounds..... You can mix a crappy snar or kcik all day and it will still sound like ish....

You want sounds that when you here em you don't need to ajust them.....

This to me is the biggest element....

Garbage in Garbage out!


Gen. Raticus

[barefoot]

Raydio,

It would help a lot if we could here and example of the problem you're having.

barefoot

[stray411]

Raticus,

I don't agree with you on this one. Yes, it's nice to have beautiful, full sounds that don't need tweaking but within a minimal budget that's not always going to be possible. My newest sound module was manufactured in 95 (except my ME-1) and by todays standards would probably be considered pretty weak. All of my sounds are subject to massive amounts of tweaking and layering when used in a project.

Tweaking sounds provides 2 benefits; a. You start with something weak and uninteresting and end up with something full and useful. b. You have an original sound that no one else has.

Stray

www.mp3.com/PerpetualProductio

[Hi_D_Ho_Man]

I love this place

[Raticus]

You may indeed be getting a good signal from the 95 sound module... year of production doesn't dictate that....

This is tru with your points when you really want to get creative but.... WHat happens when you can't make those weak sounds thump or lash like you want ... Are you going to spend hours working on dat? Maybe you will but certainly not all the time....


Myself I will do all of the layering and tweaking with good quality sounds sonically....

I can applied all of those grimey grungee effects later in post production..... I have spent to many hours at mix downs with engineer's messin with a kick or whatever when the problem all along was the quailty of the orginal sound.

A good quality sound sonically (not peaking, to low, noise in back) is very important in my set up.....


I hear ya tho....

Gen. Raticus

[stray411]

Raticus,

You've obviously been doing this for a while and your work is excellent so you obviously have sonics under control no doubt. I agree with everything you said there, tweaking is time consuming and kind of sucks anyways but like I said, it has it's benefits.

The only reason I took issue with what you said is because this cat was asking for help in getting a full sound on a budget. I was assuming that if he had full sounds to begin with he wouldn't be asking the question.

I didn't mean to offend you if I did. I wasn't questioning your abilities or techniques.

Stray

[Raticus]

Budget... I didn't see the that key word.... No offense taking bro.. We just shooting around our ideas..... What you said is absolutely correct as well bro... Think if he takes the info from all of us it all can be useful.....

Cool


Rat

[SPINSTERWUN]

Raydio, you might also want to pan your instruments to help fill up your stereo field.

[Raydio]

Thanks! This info has been too great, and Im sorry for not explaining my situation in better detail. Well, I do Hip Hop so most of my instruments are nice sounding because I sampled them from other hip hop records and such. My problem is making my tracks more funky sounding, but also knowing what elements are the reason why its so funky. I can make a drum and bass track in fruity loops, and it sounds good; but it gets boring without higher pitched type melody. For example, my stuff sounds a lot like some Nelly beats, so it needs bass; but it also needs good melodic elements(maybe from my triton). Someone told me an arpeggiator would maybe help.

I have a song that I did on the Korg Triton, and it sounds real full.... my main problem is, I want to know why it sounds full. What elements in the beat made it so full?? I know it sounds dumb, but I guess it was just a mistake song, lol. Maybe its the "bird FX".... maybe you can figure it out; heres the link!!!!!

http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/2421/2421381.html

[Raydio]

Uppin 4 More Tips!!! Everybody contribute; I like to hear different opinions.

[decoy7]

putting your finished track through a good tube pre will fatten the sound some.

compression is a key tool, get it wrong and your f'd but get it right and your onto a winner.

i rate Tribe Called Quest as one of the all time greats for phat sound and they use a mixture of compressing and tube EQ'ing from what i've heard.

[SPINSTERWUN]

You want info????? ...... here is some info for ya'.

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/sho...threadid=19596

Read ALL of ED (sonusman) posts.

[eclips1]

When it comes to production, it has everything to do with the producer and very little to do with the gear. I find that a lot of times less is more. Master your gear. Focus on learning the ins and outs of everything you have. Then when you have something you want to accomplish that you can't with what you have, research what you need to add to your system to make it happen.

Don't compare to the Neptunes or others because they're stuff is the top of the food chain which is were you eventually want to be, but they didn't get there by mimicking. They did it by being innovative. Its all about original thought. You gotta research progressing your sound and asking questions is great, forums help alot. But essentially what your asking we all have to answer for ourselves. You have to create your sound.

Also don't try too hard. i find when I try too hard it just doesn't flow. We all hit slumps and get creative blocks, but when the vibe is right, it makes those last 50 "aight" tracks worth the wait for that 1 that is some of your best work.

Thats my rant on the subject.