equipment surface is "electrified" when plugged into home sterio reciever . WHY? help

[smop]

I have a Pioneer (VSX-4800) home sterio reciever , it seems that whenever I plug rackmout equipment or Yamaha mixer (has metal surface) into it , it causes the surface of them to be electrified , feel tingly when touched (it stops when I disconnect them from it)
kind of scairy .. anyone know about this and what can be done about it?

(a ground problem? how to fix?)
(I find it strange that the reciever has a "ground" hookup for record players yet it has only a two pronged AC power cord)

thanks alot

[Tapehead]

Do yourself a great big favor, unplug that sucker and get it down to a qualified technician! One thing you don't want to fool around with is equipment that is leaking sizzle-juice. It could whack a heck of a hole into your day, redline your LEDs, clip your inputs, deguass your head, etc. in ways you never thought possible.

[drstawl]

Listen to the man! I ignored this and had a Les Paul melt the nut and burn some holes in the fretboard when the strings became live with AC. They started glowing like the filaments on an electric heater!
It just tickled a little bit when I played- but I was a little drunk at the time....

[dbho]

Most likly your outlet is not grounded. You didnt do something dumb like break off the ground on the outlet becasue your wall jack didnt have one? I see people do this all the time. Also. Once you reach a point in $$$ invested in gear, its a good idea to place all that gear on a circuit in your house that is on a GFI breaker. Then you are truly protecting your gear.

DBHO

[smop]

no I didnt break the prong off on the power strip..
(but I find it strange that the reciever cable is only two prong when the reciever has a ground hookup for record player.. what does it gound it to ??)

what can I do about it?

whats a GFI breaker ?
different from normal breakers?


thanks

[Treeline]

GFI is Ground Fault Interrupt. Means the circuit breaker is hypersensitive to short circuits and will trip at a MUCH lower amperage than an ordinary circuit breaker when it detects a ground fault - like what may be happening with your system. It don't take much amperage to mess with the old ticker... Get a GFI and live longer.

[smop]

just get a different circuit breaker switch transformer thing and plug in into the breakers switch box as a replacement ?


if thats whats happening with my system then getting one of those would mean that I wouldnt be able to use my equipment because it would always be off .... ?
(whats other solution?)

i thought it would be just something with the receiver ..

[Treeline]

It's not an alternative; it's just smart to do, particularly if you're fooling with hincky equipment. And don't try to wire it yourself; the consequences of doing it wrong can be a little hairy. You can't use your equipment if you aren't breathing, and so forth. Get somebody to do it for you and stay away from the sparky ends while he's at it.

Get the receiver checked out anyway! Just don't screw around with this stuff.

[This message has been edited by Treeline (edited 06-05-2000).]

[smop]

I think the solution has been found

this seems to be it somehow:
the receiver power plug (polarized = different sized prongs?) is plugged into an extention cord .. but the other end of the extention cord had prongs that are both of the same size (not polarized?).... so I reversed it and now things seem to be ok i think (not tingly)

thanks for the replies

[DigitalDon]

Hey Smop
The phono ground on the back of your receiver is intended to "ground" your turntable to your receiver. Actually all it is doing is ensuring your turntable neutral is at the same "potential" as your receiver neutral. This cuts down on hum from the turntable.
Sounds to me like the "tingle" you are feeling is because your receiver neutral is isolated from chassis ground (i.e. floating ground). The tingle you feel is your receiver searching for and finding ground on your other equipment through the cable shield. A very nasty and potentially dangerous situation. Don't try to attach ground to the receiver yourself because you don't know how the power supply is configured. Put it in the shop or trash it. It's not worth frying for.
DD

[Track Rat]

Amen

[smop]

could this (the tingling etc..) have just been caused solely by the prongs being reversed , like I posted above.. ?

[Treeline]

"Could be" is fine, but "is" will make the difference here. You have a dangerous situation. Take that sucker to the shop and get it checked out!

If you get to come back and tell us we're all chickens, fine! Means you're still around.

[fendermustang]

Hey Smop,

You said that your receiver only had a two pronged plug. If your receiver has a ground lug on the back, can't you run a wire from the lug to the center screw on the wallplate cover. The GFI is the best but won't this give the wayward signal a path to ground?

[fendermustang]

Hey Smop,

You said that your receiver only had a two pronged plug. If your receiver has a ground lug on the back, can't you run a wire from the lug to the center screw on the wallplate cover. The GFI is the best but won't this give the wayward signal a path to ground?

[Bob Sordahl]

OK folks, you're all on the right track, but some additional information may be useful:

A GFCI outlet can be purchased for about $7.00 and a GFCI circuit breaker will cost $30.00+ depending on the brand of service panel you have. Please note however that these devices are not meant to protect equipment; only people. They work by detecting leakage of current between the hot side of a circuit and ground. Then they shut down the circuit before you can even feel a tickle. They won't protect against over-voltage situations (lightning) or dead shorts (Damn! I twisted those two wires together!*). In order for a GFCI to work properly, the circuit needs to be grounded. That is, there needs to be a third (ground) wire running from the service panel to the outlet box. I have seen many instances where this is not the case. A lot of older houses are wired without a separate ground wire, and I've never seen a case where a GFCI will work without it.
Since reversing your plug seemed to resolve the problem, my guess is that your outlet may be wired backward. Turn off the power at your service panel and remove the outlet from the wall. The black (hot) wire should be connected to the brass screw, and the white (common) to the silver screw. If not, carefully trade them. Also, a third (ground) wire should be in there. It will either be bare copper or green jacketed. This should be connected to the ground lug on the outlet. Note that just because you have a three prong outlet, it is not necessarily "grounded". Most hardware stores sell a plug-in device that will test your outlets for proper wiring polarity and ground. It might be a good investment in your case.

As for everyone else: If you spent any money at all on your musical equipment, it is worth the cost of an electrician to install that missing ground wire if you don't have it. Also, invest in surge protection just like you do for your personal computer. You'll thank yourself many times over when the unexpected happens.

*Most people assume that circuit breakers protect against equipment fires. Not so! Breakers are there to protect the wiring in your house. A coffee maker or wall powerpak can melt into a glob of plastic and never draw the 20+ amps required to trip a breaker.

[smop]

thanks

I think it was just the extention cord I was using was backwards (both prongs are same size so it was hard to tell which way to put it..) not the wall recept wired backwards..


Is that the usual/common/best way to ground things- running a wire to that center screw?

[Bob Sordahl]

The center screw is connected to the body of the outlet. This will only offer a ground connection IF the outlet's grounding screw or lug is attached to that third ground wire running from the service panel.

[ditnoj]

And all this time I thought the keyboard at church was "coming on" to me sending me electronic "love currents".

Seems like y'all are saying the ground deal has a lot to do with the tingles. I can almost second that as I live in a place where prong breaking and equal sized prongs are the norm...will check today,

Thanks!

D out ITNOJ