Newbie here, can't save BUN in Sonar

[Barometer]

Hi All,

I've been reading posts in different forums all week and I like this one the best, so I decided to join and talk to y'all.
I'm an Art Director for a 3D R&D firm for a day job, and amatuer musician at night. Our Band Fuzzy Waldorf has been honing live recording skills for about 2 years now on a little Tascam 4 track and have just jumped into the world of Digital multitracking. The system is:

Spacewalker SS50 with 1.8 P4
512 DDR
Brand new ATA100 7200 RPM 80 GB HDD
Delta 1010
Sonar

Building the machine to the spec I wanted was a breeze and setting up the audio interface wasn't bad at all. But I have a new problem with saving BUN files. Right now we are set up to record 6 tracks of our live sound. First try I recorded about 15 minutes worth and saved the project to a BUN file no problem (It turned out to be about 1.5 GB). I still have about 70 GB free on my drive but the next session I recorded (about the same length as the first) won't let me save the BUN file, I can only save it as a WRK file. The error is "audio disk may be full" but I know that is not the case. Defrag did nothing since the drive is new and empty. Can anyone help? Other than this save problem we are ready to go and anxious to make some better recordings than our live Tascam attemps (you can hear those if you'd like at our website www.fuzzywaldorf.com). Thanks ahead of time and I hope to spend some time here learning and helping if I can =D

[dachay2tnr]

This could be a Windows issue. Some versions of Windows have a 2 GB file size limit. What OS are you running? If it is XP, then I think the file limit depends on how your HD was formatted (NTFS or FAT32 - at least I think those are the choices). One of them imposes the 2 GB limit while the other doesn't (or has a higher limit). If you're running 98 or ME, then I think you are stuck with the 2 GB limit.

You probably can get better information on this from the Soundcards and Computer forum on this bbs. That's where most of the computer experts hang out. I don't think this is a Sonar issue.

BTW, welcome to the board. There's some nice people here (but watch out for acidrock and ChuckU ).

[Barometer]

I'm using Win2K and had considered the Windows limit issue. I'll have to dig further into it. I will take your advice and post on the other board. Thanks for the response, C-ya 'round =D

I'd also like to add that I have seen very similar posts to mine in many different forums and multiple times in this one and nobody's advice has been able to fix the problem in my system. So in case you get the urge to flame me, pleaze spare me the lectures about searching for answers, I've been searching for days and have resorted to actually asking the question myself

[Qwerty]

I thought that the Sonar equivalent of a .BUN file was a .CWB file? Have you tried creating on of these?

Also, the 2G limit is only applicable to FAT 16 volumes, not FAT32 or NTFS.

I have had this problem when I have had FAT table corruption - have you run Scandisk etc?

Also, under OPTIONS-AUDIO ensure that Sonar is actually pointing to the correct directory containing the recorded source files, either WaveData in CWPA9 or AudioData in Sonar 2.0

[Barometer]

I'm not using Sonar 2 (yet) so I have saved BUN files before. But I will look for an option to save our CWB. I am using NTFS and I have defragged and scanned the disk. I could be pointing to the wrong folder because I did recently reinstall the software. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll let you know if they pan out

[dachay2tnr]

Originally posted by Barometer
So in case you get the urge to flame me, pleaze spare me the lectures about searching for answers, I've been searching for days and have resorted to actually asking the question myself

Hmmmm... a little touchy, aren't we? We only occasionally bite.

It sounds like you haven't updated your copy of Sonar to version 1.3.1. That should be a free update to registered owners of 1.0. This was the version where .cwb files were introduced.

It should not have anything to do with the problem at hand, but did fix some bugs that were present in the initial release. I still believe your problem is Windows related, but what do I know.

(BTW, .bun or .cwb files do not point at the audio, they actually contain the audio. That is what makes them different from .wrk or .cwp files. The .wrk files do not contain any audio, but only point to where the audio is located. That is also why they are so much smaller than .bun files.)

[Barometer]

Thanks for the update. I did not know there was a 1.3.1 patch. Sorry for the bit of touchiness, but like I said I've been seaching these boards for a while and noticed alot of that sort of thing (especially with newbies), just not looking to waste people's time

[Barometer]

And now I have another question relating to the BUN files in Sonar. When saving the last one there was a message that read "compacting audio (mono)". Will I be losing any data because of this? I couldn't find a setting for this option, can it be changed to stereo?

[Qwerty]

Relax - this is "Operating as per design"

The rule is, if you have recorded a mono file, (or incorrectly recorded a stereo file to a mono track), you will see the mono mixdown message.

If you add a stereo track, you would then also see a stereo mixdown message as well as the mono.

This is not compressing the actual audio, (and therefore reducing your sound quality like an MP3 does), rather it is BUNdling all the audio fragments together into one source file that can be used as a standalone backup of all the work done for that particular song/project.

[Barometer]

Thanks Qwerty,

I had a feeling that was the case, but just wanted to be sure.

[gascap]

Hi Barometer,

I usually make BUN (CWB) files when a project is ready to be archived - I burn a cd. I then use the 'clean audio' utility in SONAR (it's called something like that - under tools I think). If you have both the CWB/BUN file on your system - which are understandably sizeable - AND the various audio clips, it could be adding alot of gerth to the memory. You might try cleaning up the now unnecessary audio files and then try your other BUN procedure.

I didn't see if you were archiving - I mean, you have plenty of disk space to leave the session as a CWK...so now I'm wondering if for some reason - if it's better to MAKE a BUN file while a project is going on...?....I usually just leave the CWK file as is until it's time to bundle and archive.

Good luck!

[dachay2tnr]

Originally posted by gascap
so now I'm wondering if for some reason - if it's better to MAKE a BUN file while a project is going on...?....I usually just leave the CWK file as is until it's time to bundle and archive.

Just a little extra protection in case something goes wrong with your .wrk/.cwp file. No harm if you have the available disk space. And should you ever inadvertently delete some of your audio data, or your .wrk file, you've got a backup.

I normally create a .bun/.cwb which I periodically update through the life of the project. Usually I will keep it on a CD-RW (protection against a hard drive problem). This works fine so long as the .bun is under 650 MB. Otherwise, at least keep it on another drive than the one where your audio data is stored. As a last step, I drop it to a CD-R when the project is done (...are they EVER done??).

[Barometer]

Thanks guys,

I have been able to save everything I've been doing as WRK files, no problems. And I have successfully made one BUN file for the purpose of archiving to CD (that's my intention with these BUN files, archive and transport). I have been using the clean audio function as much as possible just 'cause I'm a neat freak when it comes to my hard drive. Now I've switched my system over to 16/44 instead of 24/96. The files are much smaller and I have not encountered the same problem. So I imagine the previous conclusion about a Windows limit is probably the culprit. I'm going to keep digging 'cause it's bothering the hell out of me, but crisis averted for now. Thanks again, I really appreciate it

Ed

[dachay2tnr]

24/96! No wonder.

You might want to try 24/44.1. A lot of people seem to feel the higher bit rate is worth the extra disk space, but not the higher sample rate.

Just a thought. Glad things are working for you in the meantime.