mud ... it's all mud.

[tvaillan]

Well this is a new mix .. can't get it quite right.

things are muddy .. things aren't cool.

help!!!

please only judge the one tune.

It's called : Sunday

It lives here:

www.nowhereradio.com/empire/singles

Tristan

[chrisharris]

I guess my mixes are even worse than I thought, b/c I'm not getting mud. In fact...(listening now...just heard very clear bass lick)...Maybe the rhythm guitar is sharing a few too many frequencies with the bass...but...Man, it sounds okay to me. (By the way, I'm thrilled to announce that I just got broadband service, so this comment is not based upon my previous LoFi limitations.

Most of my mud lives between 250Hz and 350Hz. You might try cutting it at 315Hz 'bout 5 or 6 db...if you want...but again, (and I may get lamblasted for this) but it doesn't bug me.

Cool work, by the way.

-chris

[participant]

dude it sounds like the polarity is reversed on one of your channels, or something. It's got that pseudo-stereo feel to it.

There's energy below 50 Hz (the subwoofer stuff), but I'm not hearing much near 60 Hz... have you cut anything from 60Hz - 100 Hz?

Mix sounds a bit "honky"; plenty of energy around 200 Hz, yet the most sits around 800Hz. It's a bit low at 1kHz, got quite a bit at 2 and heavy again at 8kHz.

When I get to points like that, I take all the EQ out of the mix... and start over

Sounds like a great song, tho! Excellent energy. This really isn't a muddy mix; it's just gotten to the point where it's been beaten to death with EQ


Please don't take this as a negative post The mix sounds like it needs a bass (60Hz-100), to relax (1kHz -- the "aaaahh" frequency), and to settle down upstairs (2kHz down, 8 kHz down). Rather than adjust the mix that way, I'd just start over

Don't worry; we'll stick with ya on this one!


Chad


EDIT: Just looked at your file in a spectral analyzer (to see if I was talking out of my butt )

-It is low on energy from 90Hz-100Hz (a little higher than previously stated)

-I was a bit off about 800Hz being heavy (lower, near 550-600 Hz is heavy), although it's within a 1/2 octave

-- From about 700Hz - 1.5kHz, the mix is thin, indeed (pretty much the 1kHz octave... participant scores! )

-- perceived harshness near 8kHz, because of the imbalance in the rest of the track -- though I only saw the average amplitude analysis of the spectrum; you may very well have an imbalance in the 8kHz octave. (the lower portion of that octave, from 5kHz-7kHz did seem heavy in the graph)


Sorry for all the extra rambling

[tvaillan]

Right on!

Now that's the best dang comment ever.

I've got numbers to look at, things to listen for and a fresh perspective. (and hey positive feedback on the tune isn't a bad thing either chrisharris! )

.. not to mention a good slap in back of the head for using too much stereo enhancement ... serves me right.

Thank you very much.

I've pasted your comments into notepad Participant and will certainly look and listen for what you showed me.

I'm gonnna turn off all processing and will start from scratch.
Gonna put my TL-audio EQ to good, judicious use! (It's a great eq. don't let my mix throw you off. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=U&start=...ioeq1.htm&e=42)


Anyways thanks again ... later doods.

[B.SABBATH]

you got the whole deal from Chad.. great reply indeed..


This is a good tune, but you spread it out to nothing..

there is no bass.. zero low end.

I definitely want to hear the remix!

[Balshazza]

thats a really cool tune man!

the bass sounds sick! i love that "bubbly" bass sound, but i agree there is not enough low end.

cool distortion too. nice guitar playing!

rock on dude!!

peace

balshazza

[TripleM]

Yeah, you got some excellent info from Participant.

I also agree with Sab on the lack of any bass. You could certainly beef that up.

On the song... Real good playing... On everything... Excellent lead guit and excellent playing on the drums.

[tvaillan]

should have the new version up soon. it's pretty much ready.

I'll just make an addendum to this thread once it's ready.

Here's what i did so far:

!Steps are not in the proper order!

1. Turned off ALL processing/eqing

2. The tune has it's root (for the most part) on 'G flat' .. i added a slight low Q boost (0.6dB) to that frequency in the 1K to 2K range (in don't remember the specific frequency). The small and smooth boost helped the guitars become more distinct.

3. The bass frequency harmonics where 'excited' a bit . This should result in a better perceived bass.

4. rolled off the noise in the pre 60Hz range.

5. added a bit of clarity by slightly exciting the higher end.

6. slight stereo enhancement via a few millisecond delay of the mids made the midrange more pronounced without causing a huge gap in the spectrum.

7. placed the whole mix in medium/small room with high dampening. this gives the mix cohesion without compromising punchieness.

8. threw everything in a loudness maximizer/limitter and placed most of the mix in the top 10 dB's . (It's heavy music after all)


Let's see if it works out. I'll keep you posted as to when it's done.

Thanks guys.

[CyanJaguar]

Tvillain,

I hear what you are saying about the mud, its quite muddy.Also, It doesnot sound right, and things are not cool, if you know what I mean.


I was just kidding. I did not hear any mud at all. Its actually quite unmuddy, maybe too unmuddy. THe instrumental is really nice. I can feel the heart that went into it.

Funk on!

[tvaillan]

#1 it should sound fuller ... then again i'm too poor to get decent monitors.

#2 it should sound better balanced ... then again, my brain tends to shift it's focus on the left ear's input. (unbalanced head .. lol . yeah it sucks)

#3 everything should sound distinct .. then again i'm a mixing idiot with ear problems.



Let me know what you think.


Be cruel and unusual.

[participant]

Huge difference... a lot fuller; and this is just on m.m. speakers!

Just a sec; networking the file over to the MAC, then we'll hear it on monitors...

Ahhh.... much fuller sounding again. Bass is clear & punchy; the upper end of the bass is beautiful. This is MUCH closer to a final mix IMO... hey... did you just post this to make me look smart, or something? Whatever you did, it's like night & day! At 1:57, it's just plain beautiful.

Now, it's just detail work: Cymbals may be overly bright at 0:48; during that same part (which is repeated) where it sounds like you're riding the crash, the kick seems to go away just a tad (probably a balance issue; take a bit out of the upper end of the cymbal, and it will probly teeter-totter back into balance). The kick is definitely THUMPIN at that 1:57 mark

Interesting clean guitar in that part; the guitar has a ring-y tone to it, like it's boosted at 3.6 to 4kHz... almost like you're using the bridge pickup on my Peavey Tele knockoff If you like it, it's cool.

This is starting to sound really good. Wish I could improve my stuff that fast!


Chad

[tvaillan]

thanks man.

well your advice was precisely what helped. i will therefore continue using your advice. I have never gotten such a precise technical critique before.

i've taken this mix as far as i wish to take it at this juncture.

(actually it's beyond what i excpected now thanks to you.)

there are many more parts to add to this song

time to head back to the cave.

When i re-surface ... i'll certainly ask for advice yet again since we're probably making the whole thing again plus a few parts with better equipment.

Cheap tele knockoff ey?? LOL. yeah well my guitar came with stock pickups and the strings where completely dead when i recorded the tune. I was using the bridge pickup and you're absolutely right it sounds ringy. It sounds plain cheap.


ah the wonder that is DiMarzio. can't wait to acquire my Fred or Super Dist.

later dood!
happy home rec'ing!

[B.SABBATH]

Originally posted by tvaillan
5. added a bit of clarity by slightly exciting the higher end.

6. slight stereo enhancement via a few millisecond delay of the mids made the midrange more pronounced without causing a huge gap in the spectrum.

7. placed the whole mix in medium/small room with high dampening. this gives the mix cohesion without compromising punchieness.

8. threw everything in a loudness maximizer/limitter and placed most of the mix in the top 10 dB's . (It's heavy music after all)
Let's see if it works out. I'll keep you posted as to when it's done.

Thanks guys.

IMHOP, I think its some of these things mentioned that are making it not sound as good as it could.. Parts of it sound really good, but something sounds weird to me.. I hear unwanted distortion from the limiting as well.. (around 1:20 etc.)


Once again, cool tune..