The '0,-5, -10' technique

[cordura21]

It basically says to monitor when tracking using 0db for the kick, -5db for the snare, and -10db for all the rest.

what do you guys think about this technique? It goes against what many people say about recording as hot as you can without clipping. Do you think it's good for 16 bits also?

Click here to read the full thread about it.

Cheers, Andrés

[regebro]

I can't really be bothered to register so I can't read the article. But you are saying *monitoring*. Monitoring is not recording, so you monitor levels are completely independant from your recording levels (if you have a good studio setup).

Hence this rule does not go against the standard "record as hot as possible" rule.

[cordura21]

you don't have to bother to answer this thread either.
Cheers, Andrés

[tubedude]

No no no...
I've been using this technique for some time, but you have to UNDERSTAND it properly or you are gonna screw it up...
Track as hot as possible in most cases, this technique applies to getting a rough mix and starting a mix AFTER you have a track to whatever medium you are using. As a matter of fact, I dont even know if this will work if properly if you DONT track everything at 0.

[cordura21]

Tube, can you explain it to me? Thanks in advance.

This is what I read:

"Any way. To make this perfectlt clear:

When Tracking:
1. First, before anything else, Adjust the monitor level faders as such:
Kick Drum @ 0db (Odb on the fader)
Snare Drum @ -5db
ALL ELSE @ -10 db

2. Adjust levels and balance "to tape" so that things sound fat and balanced.

3. Doing this will:

A. Create proper headroom depending on the inante characteristics of each type of source track.
for example: A Kick drum is very transient and with lots of low frequency information (compared to say a marshall gtr track). If It's monmitor fader is at 0db, and the bass, vocals, gtrs, keys...ect....are at -10db, it's got enough headroom right off the bat with out having to over compensate "to tape"
B. Also since most people start off getting sounds/balance with the kit before the "other stuff" thjis sets you up for a potentially great balance.
C. From overdubs on...you'll have FAST roughs up. The great balance you achieved in tracking will be there quickly.

Getting a good FAT kick with the bass aroound it supporting the vocal is a quick way to make the mix pump...nad this will help."


And it also says:
"What this will do is give you a very proper gainstructure reference. You then ballance all the signals to tape so that it sounds like you would want at the final mix with this monitor ballance. I know this goes against that "maximize all bits/hotest signal to tape" stuff...but the trade off is in many ways superior. The kick, being low freq. in nature will have 10db to start with over the other tracks, same with the snare, and since they're very dynamic and transient they need the extra level relative to a high rmxs signal like a bass or gtr. Also, a great side benifit, every time you switch to another song, you'll have a slamming abllnce in no time flat. You'll be suprised at how well this works if you try it. "

[Tom Hicks]

Here's my take...
On ANALOG gear,the transients of snares and such are TOO FAST for the vu meter to accurately measure.So you set the levels according to the meters and think you are (let's say) minus 2 dB but the peaks are really clipping like a sombitch cause the transients are really hitting +10 or whatever.
LED meters are another kettle of fish.There is no mass in the "needle" to overcome,that is to say inertia (light has very little mass to overcome,negligable in this case for measurement purposes)so therefor no time lag before the led VUs start registering.
I hope this isn't too much physics 101 theory.Bottom line is that the suggested settings are designed to protect your tracks from clipping if you are using an analog board with an actual needle in the VU meters

[volltreffer]

High!

You may have to be careful nevertheless. On my vs880, the meters definitely are too slow for fast transients. The clip LED may flash, but you won't see anything in the meters...

Just a thought...

Axel

[regebro]

Originally posted by cordura21
you don't have to bother to answer this thread either.
Cheers, Andrés

No I don't, but I did, because I'm a nice helpful type of guy. You are of course free to take any answers and help and flush it if you won't, but I think everybody will appriciate if you don't put up an attitude about it. It doesn't help anybody. OK? :-)

I know this goes against that "maximize all bits/hotest signal to tape" stuff

I don't think it does, depending on how things are set up. 0/-5/-10 sounds like a good starting point for mixing drums, and if you record everything as hot as possible you'd might end up with a mix somewhere like that.
Anyway, if he really breaks the rule, he is doing it incorrectly. :-)

Also, as mentioned by others here, it's not nessecarily 0 db on the meters that is the max signal. Tape can take transients over that, and VU-meters may not keep up. This may add to any confusion.
That's why the rule is "record as hot as possible without distortion" not "record at 0db". :-)