another pre-amp question

[Stevebol]

I'm a little new to pre-amp's so here goes.I have two mic's going into my soundcard.I need to switch between the two.So I bought a Presonus Blue Tube.Sounds nice but I needed a little more flexability(EQ,more connections,etc....) so I bought a little Behringer mixer.I does what it's supposed to do but I'm not sure I need it and I can't return it (exchange only).So here's my question: Should I stick with what I have or investigate a better pre-amp and try to do a deal?

CALLING ALL PRE-AMP SPECIALISTS!!!

it's just a project studio by the way......

[20db.com]

Steve you are in that area and class of gear where every upgrade in quality should be noticable. But you need to understand the signal chain and why you use certain kinds of equipment.

Assuming your sound card is of decent quality (24bit, 48khz, low noise) you want to feed your mic preamp directly into your sound card. The Behringer is NOT known for its quality and any improvement you are getting by using a standalone mic preamp is destroyed by running it through the Behringer.

Even in a pro studio you want the shortest signal path as possible and that is why a patch bay is used so you can patch the output of the mic pre directly into the input of the recorder. This insures you get the best possible quality on tape/disk.

If you want to use the Behringer for headphone mixes or monitoring that is fine but I would run the output of the Presonus right into the sound card for recording.

[Chris Tondreau]

I agree with most of what 20db.com has to say - particularly feeding the pre-amp directly into your sound card. Although not overt about it, his comments about some of your gear, particularly the Behringer stuff, is indicative of the general attitude on this board about their gear. You see a lot of silly stuff like "B****ger" and people who will use model numbers, but will say "but I can't bring myself to put their name." Come on...

I run a project studio in the spare room of my house, and I'm pretty much a beginner on a "bang-for-the-buck" setup. Whenever I can, I use my Peavey TMP1 mic pre right into my soundcard (Delta 44) and into Cubase. I recently bought a Behringer Composer Pro 2-channel compressor to help me control dynamics going into the card. I, too, have a Behringer mixer that I use when necessary for its built-in pres, but they don't IMO sound as good as the Peaveys. The Behringer mixer is wonderful for monitoring, etc.

That said, I think that Behringer is slagged far beyond what is appropriate. (not trying to start a war here....) I've had my mixer for over two years and has not even HINTED at a problem. The store I deal with says that if there is a problem with it, bring it to the store. THEY'LL deal with Behringer. According to him (who could also have tried to sell me a much higher-priced unit....), the return rate on Behringer products is no more than most other manufacturers - very few. They can't keep some of their products in stock, as it sells so fast, and they rarely have any of them returned.

I've been quite happy with my MX802 mixer. It's too early to comment on the reliability of their compressor, but I tried some slap bass through it, and the only way I could "beat" the compressor/limiter was to slap the strings RIGHT INTO the magnetic post on the pickup. There were no artifacts or anything. For what it's worth, in an article in Recording magazine, there is a feature on Bon Jovi's producer, and HE uses the Behringer compressors too for a lot of stuff. He likes the sound... and I'm sure that money is not an issue there... nor does anyone that I have ever heard comment about the poor recording quality of his albums.

For a budget system, you have decent stuff. Is there better out there? Of course, there is. Is what you have a bunch of worthless crap that will never give you a half-decent recording? No!! IMHO, I think it is more important to know how to use the gear and use it well than it is to have awesome gear with little knowledge of how to use it properly. Mutt Lange could come to MY studio and make a better recording than I could make in his, I'm willing to bet.

For the record, this is an awesome source of information; people are very positive, encouraging, honest, and helpful; and it has a really nice vibe to it. This is just one of the quirky things I have found about this forum.

...and I'll admit to being VERY happy with my Rode NT1 mic!! Mind you, I have never used a Neve console with U47 mics, LA2A compressors, etc., nor have I driven a Ferrarri. Perhaps that's why I've been quite happy with my Mazda....

Chris

[20db.com]

Originally posted by Chris Tondreau
Although not overt about it, his comments about some of your gear, particularly the Behringer stuff, is indicative of the general attitude on this board about their gear.

Chris, sorry it was not my intention to dis the Behringer. My comment was more directed at the fact that the Steves investment in the Presonus is being wasted by running through his board.

My comments would have been the same if he had a Mackie or just about any other gear. You would have to spend a lot of money before it makes sense not to go direct to your recorder.

Let me also say yes its great to have high end gear but I am a big believer in learning to get every thing you can out of limited resources. It is easy to get great sound by putting a $5000 mic in front of a Martin guitar going into a Neve console into a Studer 2" or Radar 24 Nyquist.

But it is the guys who worked with tin cans and string when they got started and learned the basics that make great engineers. IMHO. Remember its Technique, Tehnique, Technique.

Hope this clears up my position so you don't read any thing between the lines.

20

[Stevebol]

I haven't tried the mixer and pre-amp together yet.Wasn't sure which would go first.If I go mixer-pre-soundcard will the mixer affect the sound?I'm guessing there is a standard way of doing this.

[Chris Tondreau]

Hey there;

20db.com... sorry if you took what I said the wrong way. Perhaps I chose the wrong language, but I recognize that you did NOT say that the Behringer stuff was crap. It is also true that going from the mic pre into the soundcard is the best way to go, IMO. Taking the mixer out from between the two, then is a good idea. It just seemed that, and I apologize if you felt victimized by this, it was a good opportunity to comment on the general attitude of some people towards "bang-for-the-buck" gear - particularly if it has the "b-word" attached to it. It wasn't clear if you were implying the Behringer-as-the-antichrist point of view or not.

Stevebol.... the fewer things that you have between the source and your recorder the better - at least in terms of "take out what you don't need." Obviously, you need a mic, amp, patch cord, whatever. Depending on your needs, you need a compressor. Do you NEED to use the mixer before the preamp? If not, then don't. If you do, then you do what you have to...

Chris

[Gidge]

I would go straight from preamp to soundcard and leave EQ for the mixing stage.....work with mic placement to get the sound you want to tape without eq......

can you return the bluetube also?....if so return them both and get a Joe Meek...youll get preamp,compression, and eq all in one.....

[Midlandmorgan]

regardless of brand choice, I can honestly offer two things:
1. Do your homework - ask questions and read as much as possible about all levels of preamps (or all gear for that matter!) Consider a GreatRiver NV2 as much as a dbx mini-pre...consider new vs. used...consider all brands, not just what is raved about by certain 'experts'....and;
2. Consider what you want it to do today, and what you will want it to do in 2 years... there is nothing more annoying than getting a mid-grade piece of equipment that quickly evolves into a paperweight...IF it is something you can use today, and IF it something you will use several upgrades later, then it is a good investment, regardless of what brand or style preamp it is.

about a year ago I purchased a dbx286A pre used...at the time it was the best thing in the herd...several upgrades later, the 286A still gets used often...maybe not as the 1st choice vocal, but for many things (bass DI, kick mics, etc) it is a VERY good tool....

The point? it is very expensive to shop with merely the present in mind...consider your future needs as importantly as today's...

K

[Chris Tondreau]

WAY good advice, Midlandmorgan!!

[darrin_h2000]

Considering the Bluetube, Its a pretty good pre, as designed. can be improved. I recently changed out the Sovtek tube, with a Mullard and the amount of tube related noise has gone down alot.

So Improvement is easy and worth the money for a GT, or whatever you can find to add to It.

[Stevebol]

My search is over.I returned the Behringer and got a Rane DMS 22.It sounds awesome and it's perfect for what I'm doing.I must admit there is something to the sound of tube pre's though.If I was trying to get a hot guitar sound the Blue Tube or something similar might be the way to go.I haven't experimented much so I can't say for sure.I'm very happy with Rane.

Thx for all the info by the way...