Very New But Can use Info

[Stidd]

About a month ago, I was requesting some information and got such great feedback I Figured I'd Try again.

Here's the Situation. Live Band
Guitar, Bass, Percussions, Drums, Vocals
and perhaps Horns.
With a Vocal Mic for Each of Us. So if My calculation is Correct, the configuration would be something like this.

Guitars - 2 Mics, 1 for Vocals & 1 for Guitar Amp
Bass - 2 Mics, 1 for Vocals & 1 for Guitar Amp
Percussion - 4 Mics, 3 For Equipment 1 for Vocals
Drums - 4 Mics, 3 For Equipment 1 For Vocals
Vocals - 1 Mic
Horn - 1 Mic
That Gives me 14 Mics. I'm Assuming that a 16 Channel Mixer would do the Trick. I was looking at the Mackie CFX-16 Mixer.

Now for Power. I was looking at the Yamaha P4500 Power Amp. Seems like a nice Unit.
As far as Passive Speakers, I was looking at the Mackie S500 for the Crowd. 2 of them.

Question #1 - How many Monitors can we plug in and how do they get plugged in? I'm assuming they get plugged in at the PA system. But when looking at the Back Panel of the Yamaha PA, It shows 2 outputs for Speakers. Channel A and Channel B. Does it Basically work where all the Passive Speakers are Daisy Chained together? For the Crowd we'd use 2 Speakers in Channel A with the + to - config, and use as many monitors as we want for us members through channel B?

Question #2 - If I through a Tape Deck into all of this and simply hit record I'm sure I can record everything going through the borad right? Any details on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,

Stidd

[TexRoadkill]

Good choices on gear.

It is more common to use a Direct Box for the bass. You can mic the amp but those are your options.

For your monitors you will need an additional power amp or powered speakers. Usually you use Pre Fader Aux sends to feed the monitors so that the monitor mix can be different than the Front of House (FOH) mix. Different members of the band will probably want different monitor mixes as well. The amount of Aux sends that you have determines the amount of discreet monitor mixes you can provide.

A tape deck will record the show but since the levels will be set according to the room sound that recorded signal will usually be very vocal heavy. It will be fine if you just want to review the performance. Mixing the board output with a room mic can help fill in the sound a bit.

[BrettB]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
Good choices on gear.



A tape deck will record the show but since the levels will be set according to the room sound that recorded signal will usually be very vocal heavy.

Very true. I once even double miced everything at a gig: one for live and the other for the recording. It work tremendously, the only thing was the viewpoint, the stage was a mess up of microphones

[knightfly]

You can set up a really BASIC PA in mono with just ONE monitor mix, using the two channels as you asked - If the speakers are 8 ohm rated and the amp can handle down to at least 4 ohms, you can plug two main speakers into one channel of the amp, but do it in parallel - + goes to +, - goes to -. This can be done by using the "through" connectors on the speakers, which normally is wired in parallel.

For your monitors, you would need not only an aux send for each separate mix but also a separate channel of power amp. If you wanted separate mixes for different band members, you would need more power amps, one channel per mix. For monitor mixes, you need to watch impedances even more - if your amp can handle 4 ohms and you plug 3 8 ohm spkrs into it in parallel, using the loop-thru connectors on the speakers, you will probably fry the amp. For a system using more than two speakers on one output, you would need to build a series/parallel box with specially wired phone jacks that would connect (say) 4 speakers in two series loops. Usually it's less hassle to just get another power amp, unless you're dirt poor...

As far as mixer, the cfx-16 won't let you use 14 mics, assuming you really need that many. It has 12 mic inputs and 2 stereo LINE inputs. Also, if you DO want more than one monitor mix, move up to a mixer with more than two auxes. If you use one for FX, that only leaves you with one for monitors. Although, I just looked at their rear panel, and it looks as if you have separate FX sends AND two aux sends, which are switchable pre/post; now, if you use a DI for the bass as TRK suggested, AND you only used two mics on drums, you could just get by with this board.

However, from experience I can tell you that you will ALWAYS want more inputs than you have. (What if you get a keyboard player who doesn't have his own key mixer?) I can also tell you that every mic you put up increases your susceptability to FEEDBACK - so, any time you can eliminate a mic by sharing/positioning/DI, you should try it... Steve

[tf5_bassist]

Mackie 1604VLZ.

I put my faith behind no other board like i do with this one.

And it's VERY easy to get a monitor setup with it... piece o' cake!

[Stidd]

Alright Looks Like the Band is Making the Plundge on Saturday. We really like the Mackie Boards. In exploring our Options I Pretty Much Came up with the Following Mic Config. I am reallly unfamiliar with how this all works so if anyone sees me doing something wrong, please feel free to bash and tell me how clueless I am. :-)
Anyways Here's the Mic Config I think we are going to use.

Guitarist - 2
AMP and Vocals

Bass - 2
AMP and Vocals

Percussions - 5
4 for Drums, 1 for Vocals

Drums - 4
All Drums

So because of So Many Mics, It Looks like we are either going to get the CFX16 and Get a Sub Mixer for My Drums. If I do this, the output from the submixer would go into the big board on an input of one of the channels right?

Otherwise, we can get the CFX20 and Have Plenty of Channels.

[tf5_bassist]

the CFX16/submixer solution is decent. I've been involved in situations like that. However, you have to make sure that you get it mixed right the first time at the submixer, period. And yes, it'd go into one of the input channels on the big board. But if you want to use a stereo drum image, in my opinion, I'd send two signals out. One for left, one for right... And use two channels on the CFX16. But that's just how I'd do it... Anyone know if using a singler 1/4" TRS cable would be too noisy?

[Stidd]

Thanks for the Response TF5. i was thinking of getting a Board with 6 Mic Inputs. Can you recommend one that has decent output to the Mixer?

[tf5_bassist]

Well... Any decent mixer board has decent outs to the monitor... One of a few ways. You can send the Tape Out from the submixer to the Tape In on the main mixer, if your setup allows it... You can use the monitor out or an Aux out on your submixer and then take that in on one of the channels on your main mixer. However, my best suggestion would be to get a large mixer, a 24-channel or more and just do it that way. Less problems between having two mixers, and everything is there at one location. And also, the benefit to using one mixer and having individual inputs for all your drum mics is, of course, you don't have to worry about being stuck with a certain mix from the submixer. You can tweak with your entire mix at one location, having more creative control over your sound. I've found it's just easier that way. But I know most people don't have the money for a 24-channel mixer, so going with the 16 channel and then a 6 or 8 channel submixer is your least expensive option. More difficult, yes, but cheaper.

But as you'll hear over and over on this forum... Save up for the better gear, and you'll be glad you did. Just gotta' weigh out your options. ^_^