I've a problem. Oh shut up.

[badgas]

I'm working on a song.
I have the music and the lyrics, but I have one problem that I've been working on for a few weeks and can't seem to find a usable solution.
I'm open to any suggestions.

The problem is the way the first and second verses rhyme.

I'd like them to match rhymematiclly (is that a word?) without changing the meter but still say what their saying. Or can it pass the critque test later down the road when it's recorded, as is?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. When I sell it, I'll cut ya in on the earnings and you'll be in the credit list.

=======
Eyes Full Of Tears

(vs. 1)


I see your eyes are full of tears.
I reach out to you,
But you turn and walk away as if to say,
We’re through,
And it really doesn’t matter what you do.


(vs. 2)


The bedroom door swings slowly closed,
And I hear it lock,
While the sound of your crying fills the room,
But you won’t talk,
And I know that it’s ended all too soon.



(bridge)

Eyes full of tears are sad to see.

Eyes full of tears are haunting me.



---------

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Shaeffer]

Badgas,

Better rhyming than some pop country songs I've heard recently... I don't see any problems with it at all. The only thing I noticed is that the "But you won't talk" doesn't flow in a smooth sentance like "as if to say we're through."

I just can't think of a way to say the same thing in a different way.

Oh, wait! I've only been awake for 20 minutes and haven't had any coffee, yet!

I should know better!

Take care,
Chris

[Henri Devill]

While the sound of your cryin' fills the room
{theres} no talk in {this} gloom..
A silence fills my toom..

while sound of cryin' thru the door
no reason or words anymore..

I can't really come up with much..I'm stuck on the perfect rhyme

cool bridge.. simple and elegant..Good luck


Don

[jeap]

toom?

[Henri Devill]

Tomb...There, happy!


Don

[jeap]

i have some new words.

maybe they will provide some inspiration.

you cant use these words exactly tho caws there mine!


GET UP OFFA YO THANG!!!

GET UP OFFA YO BIG FAT GREASY WHITE BREAD THANG!!!!

DO DAT NEW JACK SWANG!!!

DO DAT HIP HOP FREAKY DEAKY FUNKY MUNKY OFF YO BUTT NEW JACK SWANG!!!!

WEN I SEEN U I SAID DANG!!!

WEN I SEEN U I SAID WHAP ME UPSIDE MY HEAD U NO WUT IM SAYIN FONKEY HONKEY AN DANG!!!!




thats as far as ive gotten so far...

[badgas]

I know what your sayin' Chris. I just got up myself.
Some how, the line fits in to the music. Looking at it on paper is sits out like a wart on McVie's cheek.
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

Jeap/Henri.
I've toyed around with 'tomb'.
In my mind it's a little on the dark side, possibly a bit to strong in the deathly feel.
But since you guys brought it up I'll mull it over again.

Thanks for all the ideas Jeap.
Thanks Henri.

[theron]

Badgas,

Thanks alot. I printed the lyrics so's I could work on it and now it is ALL I'm working on. It's driving me nuts! I better come up with something. I'll let you know what falls onto the paper.

Theron

[jeap]

"your crying fills the room
and my head up with gloom
i b'lieve i'll dust my broom"

hmmm...

kinda turns the tables doesnt it?

[theron]

I tried


(vs 2)

The bedroom door swings slowly closed,
locked inside your room,
The sound of secret sobs so cold, have all but told
the truth,
And I know that it's ended all too soon.


Sorry I couldn't come up with something better,

Good Luck,

Theron.

[badgas]

Thanks, Theron.
I gonna try out all the suggestions tonight. I've read them, and copied them, and want them and the song to cool down in my mind a bit before I begin working on it again.
Too much clutter and I can't think right.

Jeap, I don't think the majority of people outside of the music field wouild know what 'dust my broom' would mean.
It feels a bit to Robert Johnson'ish for me in this song.
I'm looking at the 'tomb' addition though, but it still feels a bit on the heavy side.

Thanks guys.

[badgas]

So far, I've tried all suggestions, except one of Chris' and I'm leaning toward it at the moment.

Some things fit, but chages the context of the lyrics.
Some sound good but just conflict with other lines.

So, at this point, I'll leave it as is, like Chris mentioned.

I'm still open for any ideas to get the two verses to rhyme in squence.
It's that last line on vrs 2 that irritates me.

Thanks everyone for you time and concideration on my project. I really appreciate your time.

[chazba]

Hay gasman...Nothing wrong with it in the original form. It depends more on the rhythm and meter that you sing it in. You set the mood very well at the outset. My feeling is that sometimes less is more when it comes to lyrics.
chazba

[jeap]

you know...

a lot of times lyrics dont really mean anything. you can throw them in for the way they sound.

i think badgas probly has a lot of experiences to draw from in writing. dig deep and let it pour out with feeling.

write more than you have to and then whittle it down.


i think tomb is a fine word to use here:

The bedroom door swings slowly closed,
And I hear it lock,
While the sound of your crying fills the room,
But you won’t talk,
i know our love is dead and buried in a tomb

or


my heart is broke and i want to go back to the womb


or maybe


and i have a restless feeling of doom


how about


and my heart is filled with gloom


also


your heart belongs to another; but to whom?


maybe


and the darkest clouds begin to loom


or...

[badgas]

That's some of the problem with some of the ideas, Chazba. The melody and music kinda fit in with what is there. I can't add any extra meters without starting an eighth into the previous measure, which I've already done, or changing the melody around some. And I don't want to do that.
I'll more than likely leave it as is, as you and Chris mentioned.

All these ideas jeap is tossing at me almost makes enough for a fourth vrs. But I'd have to squeeze the solo down a bit.
Lemme mull it around, Jeap.
I didn't post my third vrs, because it's right on with the first vrs.

[TexRoadkill]

Since "Freebird" is there really any reason for anybody to write more songs?

Without the music it's hard to say but I like your original lyrics. It would really depend on the delivery.

[crawdad]

I have two ideas, which may indirectly solve your problems or at least give you new territory to explore. Niether writes the song for you, unfortunately.

But you turn and walk away as if to say,

This line has a very cool internal rhyme--away--say. The second verse lacks it and I missed it immediately. Thats the first point.

Second point is: although what you have done is VERY well crafted--even as is, your problem is obvious to me. These verses are dying for a chorus! There is another title waiting to finish this off. The girl is crying and detached, and she doesn't want to talk about it to you. So, where is this leading? I want to hear what you'd say to her and how you are feeling. Thats the whole missing thing. Its a lot deeper than eyes full of tears are sad to see. Think about it. The person you love is turning your back on you. What are you feeling then? What do you want to say? What do you feel? Thats your chorus. Dig a little deeper. There is something very real underneath it all. You sure aren't gonna stand outside the door and say "Eyes full of tears are sad to see." What would you say to her? Thats what you should be saying in your chorus.

I'd change the last line of the first verse to:

and it really doesn't matter what I do

Because its kind of YOUR problem that you can't solve. And it keeps the verse in first person.

The structure of this song should be verse, chorus, verse, chorus, possible short bridge and last chorus--the way I see it on paper.

I'll shut up now...

[badgas]

Tex:
I agree unequivocally. No problem here about that.

But the problem with that is that when someone posts the music/lyrics here, someone always comes along bleeting about putting it in the clinic.

To me the term, 'Songwriter' means music and lyrics. But I'm tired of wrestling with the people I irratate.

But I really do agree.

[badgas]

Crawdad.
That is an excellent post.
Some very good pointers there.

I haven't been satisfied with what I have but didn't see it. I always felt something was lacking, missing.
You hit it right on the chorus.
Everything you said makes sense. Thank you.

This is a tremendous help.

[Henri Devill]

Badgas, if you put music and words here ,and someone doesn't like it........well screw 'em!and Tuff Shit..after all this is songwriteing and music is a part of songwriteing!At least you arn't selling a chinese mic Nobody moderates here anyways!!


Don

[theron]

crawdads first point is what I tried to fix. That is was drove me nuts and I think that rhyme inside the verse is imperative (plus I love writing rhymes inside of rhymes).

you're doing the song justice by taking your time and sorting through the options. Hope it all crystalizes in a burning, muse-struck moment of inspiration and clarity!! Or.........through gruesome hours of wadded up paper, fist pumping and profanity.


Either way

Theron.

[crawdad]

Thanks! I had some very good teachers over the years. First and foremost was my old publisher. No way could you slip anything by him. It taught me in a short time to try and see the song in terms of reality. When you can get down to the nitty gritty of the human experience and the human heart, the truth will cut through anything.

I'm glad the suggestions were helpful. I'd love to see where you take it from here. My best to you!

[crawdad]

Oh, yeah. Its always hardest to see from our own vantage point. Usually, its because we have a lot of IDEAS about what we want to put in the lyric and there are conflicts. It stems from not seeing the theme as is and its borders. The question is always: what is this song really about?

I've got one now that I thought was gonna be killer, but as I read it today, I see that my theme is wandering all over the place. Cool verses but not connected enough. It confuses me--so its sure as hell gonna confuse anybody who listens to it. Its a lot easier to be objective with anothers work. I co-wrote for a long time because two heads are better than one when it comes to isolating problems. Sometimes, I am way too close to my own work to see the forest for the trees.

Sometimes, we just get lucky too. It might be a real abstract line, but it works, ya know? In Paul Simon's American Tune, he has these two lines that just worked on a subliminal level:

We come on the ship they call the Mayflower
We come on the ship that sails the moon

Now that second line is kinda vague but I know he's talking about the present--contrasting the journey from England to America and the modern trip from the earth to the moon. In that juxtaposition, he creates meaning that I understand--almosty without knowing why or thinking about it.

Well, I'm just kinda talking out loud, but I love this stuff! I suppose if it was easy, everybody would be doing it, right?!

[badgas]

Good point Henri.
I just don't like rock the boat, except in the cave, ya know.
Gimme a day or two and I'll throw up a bit of the song. My shoulder is acting up to much to play right now.


Theron. Yeah, You did. But I was so intent on trying to leave it as it was, but find some magical word to fit,,,,,,, blah, blah....
Like I said earlier, but some of the ideas like 'Tomb' was just too deep, heavy, deathly for this song.
It's a slow long, kinda I guess. I've really only strummed it on an acoustic at this point. Getting the lyrics were more important. Like I told Henri, I'll throw up an MP3 of it soon.

Crawdad.
I can't belive the simplicitic complexity of your analysis of my song. I totally over looked everything you mentioned. You've opened up a few new avenues for me. I've been thinking of things since and really see what your talking about.
Everyone seems to miss the trees when the forest is before them. Until you can glide through the brush, track the stag, identify the moss on the log you'll stay in a state of beweilderment. Just like songwriting.
Of course you can see it, and hear it.
Your lucky to have a publisher like you did. It shows you heeded his advice.
Thanks again.

[analog4]

Hey Badgas,

How about using v.2 as a prechorus (possibly talking) and
musically pushing into the refrain---the lyrics suggest a piece that is musically spatial...I don't see anything wrong with posting a music link in this forum for rough drafts...Why put them in the clinic when the song is still a work in progress???

Graham.