Output from DMP3 (-10db or +4db)??

[HangDawg]

I can't seem to find out which it is. Do balanced outs automatically mean +4?

[darrin_h2000]

If you have a low noise floor use the +4. But for home recording where you dont have a soundproof room that is accousticly treated use the -10.

[chessrock]

Huh ? ? ?

[HangDawg]

That's not what I asked. I wanted to know what the outputs are, not which I should use. I think regarless, +4 will produce better results, might have something to do with SN ratio. Just guessing.

[darrin_h2000]

The two arent related, the pad is there to give you more adjustment if the ambiant noise in the room is too high. The ballanced outs usually have the XLR connection and the unballanced ones have the phone plug but that isnt allways the case.

[chessrock]

I'm really confused, now.

[Gidge]

If you use a cable with TRS, it will be at +4 ......

If you use a cable with TS, it will be at -10 ......

which you wanna use depends on what you are going into.....

[Shailat]

Originally posted by HangDawg
I can't seem to find out which it is. Do balanced outs automatically mean +4?

+4 can be unbalanced as well although mostly is balanced.
Usualy you will see a RCA cable with +4 unbalanced or a 1/4 phone conector.

+4 balanced is only a needed when you use long cable runs or have electrostatic or radio problems in your room, otherwise quality is the same as long as you keep the unbalanced cables short.

As long as your gear can work with -10 and +4 you'll be fine working with different gear.
I dont know the DMP3 but as long as you take care to use -10 with another -10 your fine. Same with +4.

[darrin_h2000]

+4 will put a hotter signal on your track but more room noise will come allong with it. -10 is reccomended for homereccers because there is more room noise in the Home studio. Actually most Mic pres sold for home use have this switch.

That was my explanation. Still Confused ?

[Smokepole]

I can't seem to find out which it is. Do balanced outs automatically mean +4?

Yes on thDMP3

Don't get me wrong, I truly don't know shit, but I think the original question can be answered as a yes or no.

[chessrock]

Darrin, I don't understand how room noise comes in to play with -10 versus +4.

Anyway, no, +4 does not automatically mean balanced. Technically, +4 is a "professional" operating level, while -10 is "consumer." What it boils down to is that your dmp3 is compatible with both, which is good. Check the owner's manual of your sound card or whatever it is you are recording on to, and find out whether your inputs are +4 or -10. My sound card control panel (m-audio) lets me select between the two. Your input might, also.

Just be sure to match them up -10 output with -10 input and so on. If you don't know what kind of input you have, then who cares? Just select one at random and if you get noise, or your recording signal is too loud or too soft, then try switching to the other.

If you have your choice between +4 and -10 ins and outs, I would go with the +4 because it is "pro," and being "pro" is kewl because everyone will say: "Wow man, he's a pro. I wish I could be pro." Then you can impress everyone with your vast knowlege of recording and your racks of shiny Behringer tewb gear.

[Smokepole]

The manual says to choose the output on the DMP3 you must use one cord or the other. Selecting a balanced 1/4" jack will automatically put you at +4; you don't have a choice or a switch or anything.

In other words you cannot go balanced and get the -10

The manual also echoes what chessrock just said. "Just be sure to match them up -10 output with -10 input and so on"

The type of jack you choose makes the choice as far as the DMP3 is concerned.

Is this what you guys are getting out of the manuals description of this?

[c7sus]

Darrin, my understanding of pads is that they are for hot signals that overload your INPUT stage, introducing distortion at the front end of your chain. The pad allows you more headroom without distortion in this instance, and also more dynamic range.

I don't believe that the main function of a pad is to offset "ambient noise" of a room.

[Velvet Elvis]

It is my understanding also that +4 and -10 have nothing to do with adding more or less ambient noise.

It may *seem* like -10 has less noise, because it produces less output than a +4 connection, but in reality, if both were turned to the same db reading, -10 would most likely have MORE noise because you would have to turn it up further and would introduce more mechanical/electrical noise from your preamp into the equation.

The pad is for buffering the input stage of a preamp... some sound sources can overload the input stage and cause distortion.... turning the pad on drops the input stage down so that it can handle those inputs. This does not change the output stage... the output will still operate at +4 or -10 depending on how you have the unit set.

No, balanced does not always mean +4... and unbalanced does not always mean -10... though typically you will see those combinations.

Let's break it down even simpler.... here are the components...

mic to preamp... amount of input controlled by the pad and the input level of the preamp.

output operating level... can be +4 or -10... you typically should match devices to the same level (IE - use a +4 setting on the output of your preamp if your tape deck expects +4 inputs). This keeps the SN ratio the lowest (you would get a fair amount of PREAMP mechanical/electrical - not ambient - if the preamp is outputting -10 and the tape deck is looking for +4). It also minimizes distortion and overloading... (IE you would have a greater chance of overloading the tape deck input if you were running a +4 output from your preamp into a -10 input on the tape deck).

Lastly... balanced and unbalanced... balanced cables will maintain a better signal over long periods of distance and will help reject interference.

Velvet Elvis

[Smokepole]

Velvet Elvis,

the output will still operate at +4 or -10 depending on how you have the unit set.

No, balanced does not always mean +4... and unbalanced does
not always mean -10...



This is the part that really confuses me. Like the original post said "outputs on the DMP3"

I'm looking at the unit and have the manual right here. There is no way to set the unit??? There is no switch or option to set it??
The manual says that on this particular unit your choice of balanced or unbalanced jacks determines the output level of the preamp. Balanced = +4, unbalanced = -10. What am I missing?

[chessrock]

Originally posted by Smokepole
What am I missing?

Probably what a lot of people on this thread are missing.

a clue.



















just kidding, Smokepole.

Not really.

[Smokepole]

OUCH!

[chessrock]

[Shailat]

Originally posted by Smokepole
This is the part that really confuses me. Like the original post said "outputs on the DMP3"

I'm looking at the unit and have the manual right here. There is no way to set the unit??? There is no switch or option to set it??
The manual says that on this particular unit your choice of balanced or unbalanced jacks determines the output level of the preamp. Balanced = +4, unbalanced = -10. What am I missing?

Your not missing anything. There is no switch on the DMP3.
I went and downloaded the pic and the manualas I don't own one of those.

If I understand this type of circuit correctly, it's a circuit were when plugging in a TRS it will do the calculation using ressistors to output a +4 and a TS will make it calculate a -10 output.
What you will need is to make sure you are using a TRS cable to get a +4 balanced line and TS for -10. Simple as that

I havn't seen many of those types of circuits but it works......

[darrin_h2000]

Actually I read my explanation here on the boards somewhere. but it does work that way. It tottaly does pick up more abiant noise in the +4 mode.

I am allowed to be wrong once, but only once, Id better be more accurate for the rest of the year.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by darrin_h2000
Actually I read my explanation here on the boards somewhere. but it does work that way. It tottaly does pick up more abiant noise in the +4 mode.

Well, I guess you learn something new every day. My apologies, Darrin. I was always under the impression that embient noise had more to do with your room accoustics and the directional pattern of your microphone.

So how is it that the +4 versus -10 thing can effect accoustical embience? To think I've been wasting all this time with accoustic treatments when all I had to do was switch to -10 operating mode. You've really got my curiosity, now, Darrin.

[Velvet Elvis]

Darrin,

How are you figuring that it causes more ambient noise?

Are you putting a mic in a room... listening to it at -10 and then switching to +4?

Velvet Elvis

[HangDawg]

I always hear that you should use +4 if you equipment supports it. I have the delta1010 so I am in good shape either way. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough about my question. All I really wanted to know was if the dmp3 was +4 or not. Question answered, thanks everone

ps
you guys crack me up

[Velvet Elvis]

HangDawg...


soo.... we should have just said...

"YES.. if you plug it in with a balanced cable it automatically switches to +4 operation"

Dang.... that was EASY!

bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

sorry... its Thursday and my brain hurts

Velvet Elvis

[chessrock]

So Gidge gets a gold star for the accuracy and brevity of his earlier response.

And Darrin gets the "What the f_ _ _ ? ? ? ? ?" award.