this subject needed its' own thread

[mixmkr]

originally, a quote from Nave

In all due respect
I don't want to start a war here BUT


....not every one here has been recording for 10 or 20 some odd years like some of you.....Some of us are really only capabable of putting up "rough mixes" and getting songs out of the "beta" stage is a trial. Not to mention that alot people have pretty fragile egos when it comes to their music and knowing how tough people are in the mp3 clinic here, I don't blame them for saying it's a rough mix when they post.....Just because something is a rough mix doesn't mean that there wasn't effort put into it.... And I've listened to your music crawdad and mixmkr's mixes and they are both very good and I feel that people like you could probably offer the most to someone who has a rough mix AND not listening to tunes just because some one expresses a hint of trepidation about posting a tune is really quite a shame.....Furthermore, one person's idea of rough is another's idea of finished and vice versa...it's all relative and anything one says about there own work should be probably taken with a grain of salt...It's hard to be judgemental about your own material...That all said, Personally, I think it is fun and rewarding to listen to ideas in the "beta stage" because it's neat to see the potential that is there in the song. Infact, with a few exceptions, that is how I tend to view everything I listen to in the mp3 clinic: that is rough and beta. That is the fun of this place. Ultimately it is a "rough" and "beta idea" place and I like that. This is a homerecording site and essential everyones ideas, whether you like it or not, are to some extent beta and rough....If you want a finished mix then why not just pop in your favorite comercial CD.........


and ofcourse that's just my opinion...it's not a personal attack on anyone....relatively speaking this place is fantastic...and sorry jump for butting in with this.


Now...I'm starting a new thread on this discussion....not to butt in on any artists' thread...but Nave, you did not accurately read my response. I stated: "Also, admittedly, I'm not too fond of listening to "beta" ideas....or rough tracks. Put up something you think you've finished, and then you might get more meaningful responses. If you're stumped, prior to mixing...that's another issue, but you didn't mention anything to the case.

Now...I said that if you're having problems, or whatever, sure...put it up for suggestions. BUT, that wasn't the case in the thread this quote was extracted from.
AND...in addition, why listen to mistakes, out of tune stuff, and that other kind of crap? At least have the courtesy to fix those problems before presenting it the the clinic....or at least that is MY opinion. It's not like studio time at home is super expensive, and to retrack something to fix an error should be a GIVEN in recording (unless of course that mistake was the take of the century, and the mistake "should" be left alone because it had "feeling and soul").

I agree the beta stage mixes can be fun too...But...maybe more like a music bed, prior to vocals...or a vocal track without harmonies yet...whatever.

Oh well...I should have left this alone, but since my name was mentioned in the same sentence that also included that my lack of listening for my own personal reason "are a shame"...I felt compelled to respond.

Nave..I think you misunderstand my thoughts on the subject, and you should know...I've commented on a shitload of music here in the past....probably your stuff included.

oh...and while I'm "ranting away" those with the fragile egos can play their stuff for the parents, girlfriends and their family. THIS IS THE [semi, internet kinda real] REAL WORLD, and you're gonna get comments ranging from great to suck...so be prepared for the best and the worst. You maybe didn't remember the slamming I took with the "home mastering" thread awhile back.....like "get a singer"..."my girlfriend laughed when she heard this song"...etc
But,...me being the prick I am...I didn't let it bother me... I wanted to put up more shit to listen too!

[mixmkr]

I really didn't feel that I adequately expressed what I was trying to say, and that there are ALWAYS exceptions...
but...maybe this might be a thread to offer opinions on the subject ....or maybe it's just a waste of time. Recording would probably be the better choice VS talking about this crap anyway...

[WATYF]

lol.. that's prolly where everyone is at..

have you noticed there's a lot less activity on the board lately...? What's up with that..

As for your topic... I dunno... I don't totally agree. I guess it really depends on how you define "finished". My stuff is "finished" for what I'm gonna do to it... but I'd never ever release it to anyone but the folks on this forum the way it is. Eventually it will be "finished" right when we do it in studio.. My recordings are just for my own enjoyment... to see what I can do farting around with what little gear I got. Then you got people like Erland who will sit down in the kitchen and record a quick two track ditty.. make it into an mp3 and post it just like it is... I wouldn't call that "finished".. that's why people use his stuff for collabs... cause all he does is an acoustic rhthym and his vocals...

over all, I wouldn't discourage any form of submission here.. I don't hear anyone putting up completely bogus garbage that wasn't even mixed, and even when they do throw up something that wasn't messed with at all, they'll usually say something like, "Hey,.. I just sat at the mic and recorded this.. let me know what you think of the song."

I could see making this an issue if there was a flood of crap coming in to the clinic... but I think we're doin' good the way we are.

WATYF

[mixmkr]

your right....let the thread die....but I'll leave it up for 'entertaining reading'

personally, I'll just keep quiet on my own and skip those 'beta' mixes

[King Elvis]

I think that the quality of the stuff that is posted here is fantastic and I would much rather listen to someones "rough mix" than whatever is popular on the radio right now.

[badgas]

Ditto King Elvis.

[Fed]

mixmkr,
I think it's different depending on what people ar looking for when they post stuff here.

Sometimes it's "check my mix" but sometimes it's "how do you like this song?" type of thing. The first one, I agree, should probably have some effort put into it before posted. Second one like Erlands stuff "in-the-moment-at-the-fridge" recording... well?

I don't even know if he is looking for comments on mixing sometimes. There are probably cases of in between those two categories too.

So I guess we are stuck, unless people specificaly say "comment on mix" or "do you like it".

What about those "bina" threads. That's not even music

Anyway I think I know what you were trying to say with your comments.

cheers

[Stratomaster]

I'll listen to anything that anyone puts up here period. Actually by the time someone puts up there "finished" mix, chances are they wont change it regardless, they are most likely just sharing, which is fine with me too. So it seems to me the best time to really post a mix here is when done tracking and you have a rough mix. This way if the experienced ears can find flaws in the mix, you can try out new ideas without recalling that cd from the copiers.

[crawdad]

I posted this on the thread that spawned this one, since I missed this thread first time around. Since it pertains directly to THIS thread, I am posting it again here. Hope I am not breaking any sacred laws or anything by doing so. My original post follows ( so I don't have to paraphrase myself all over again)


nave--I understand your point of view and don't take what you say as anything personal. I don't want to intimidate anybody either--quite the opposite. I want to encourage people to work hard on their music, thats all.

Its one thing when somebody has a specific question, like "I'm having trouble getting this mix balanced" or "do you think the arrangement is too busy" or whatever. Posting something half done and asking "what do you think" seems kind of pointless. What I do like seeing is somebody posting their best and getting suggestions--then coming back with something even better. Then the purpose of this forum shines!

I like to hear peoples experiments too, like recording the drums with three mics or using a certain mic technique on an instrument.

I certainly realise that there are people at all different levels of knowledge as far as recording is concerned, and I certainly don't put myself at the top of that pile. I still have lots to learn. I do try and help whenever I can.

There is a difference between lack of knowledge and lack of effort, thats all. I have sometimes spent weeks and months tweaking a mix because sometimes thats what it takes to get a handle on it. The big boys don't whip off a master mix in a half an hour. They work their asses off going into great depth and detail to achieve results. I've seen pros spend six weeks mixing a CD--all day every day in the studio. Assuming that we are all hoping to someday get results that good, we should understand that it takes lots of time and patience to do great work. To me, posting something left unfinished, without a specific purpose, is like saying its not really all that important. Sorry, but that is how I feel.

Understand, I'm not asking for perfection from anyone--just their best effort. Jumpingflash said these are just ideas. If I started posting every idea I had here, there'd be no more bandwidth! The first step in improving is not getting advice. Its giving your best effort to your own work.

I support anybody who does the best they can with what they have, period. The best advice I could give anyone at any stage of development is this: never settle for anything less than your best. Did you write the song rock solid? Are the parts recorded and played to the best of your ability? Did you work on the mix until it was the best you could do. If so, and you are not satisfied, or you just aren't sure, thats the time to come asking for assistance and advice. Cause, at that point, you're paying attention and you are gonna learn something. The only people I have ever seen succeed in music set a standard for themselves and never quit until they had achieved that standard. I think that is good advice for anybody at any level.

Thats just my personal view--and, yes...I get cranky about this stuff sometimes, so feel free to ignore me if you don't agree. Please, I mean to offend no one. I'm out...

[dtb]

I think some of you take this stuff too serious, seriously. he he he

I hope this thread doesn't leave any of us "beta" posters out in the cold, Personnally, I get a lot of help with my slack-ass little recording world, and my slack-ass songs, and my slack-ass.
So shut up. he he he he he he he he he

I really like it when mixmkr replys. Most of the folks on here have great stuff to say, even if it has nothing to do the actual recording process.

REMEMBER THAT SOME OF US STILL DO THIS FOR FUN!!!!!!!

dtb

[nave]

hey folks.....I see you've made a thread of this....which is cool....and I'm glad that none of you took it personally; it wasn't intended to be a personal thing.


I think that just after awhile I just got tired of hearing all these things in the clinic.


i.e. I don't want to listen because: it's a rough mix, it's not a direct enough link to the material, this person hasn't replied to any of my threads, it's a zip file, it's on mp3.com, it's real player, it's not my style of music........etc....etc....etc.....(ok, so maybe that's taking it a little to far, but you get the idea) I just think that sometimes people need to lighten up a bit. I understand there are many different types of folks on this board; and that they are going to have their own personal listening preferences. And I can accept that. If you don't want to listen to something that's your business, regardless of the reason. Nevertheless, those types of comments sort of just got to me after awhile. Probably because my I'm on a different wavelength. Like, Stratomaster I'll listen to anything. I simply can not come up with any reasons not to download someone's song and give it a listen; other then perhaps not having enough time on my hands. You might not download a tune because the author of the thread says it's performance is shaky and it could be the best song in the world that you miss or they could be world class musicians, who undoubtably have a different definition of "shaky performance." Catch my drift??? And like dtb, to me this is primarily about fun. And I think that all the "I don't want to listen because" comments sort of start to kill that vibe. Again that's just me. Sorry


My other point, which I think some of you understood is that when someone says they are posting a rough mix, I don't necessarily feel that they always actually mean that. I think many just dub it a rough mix because they anticipate that "rough" is what the people here in the clinic are going to call it; even if in their eyes it is close to finished. What I'm saying is that I think that alot of folks just come out and say "this is a rough mix" rather then saying "hey, I'm stumped." I think that both those quotes can mean the same thing at times.



So hey, whatever.......WATYF is right....things are pretty good here in the clinic....I didn't want to stir up any commotion. Like I said, it's just that after always seeing these "I'm not going to listen" things, it just got to me. Not because there is anything wrong with not listening to a song (for whatever reason) but just because I am perhaps on a much different wave length then some of you folks. Not a better one, just a different one. I see no reason why we all can't get what we want out of this board. Infact I think that we all pretty much do already and if this sort of thing poses as an obstacle to people getting what they want out it then I sincerely apologize for starting this. Again, I'm just telling it as you would hear it if you were in my head. Maybe I should just stop speaking so candidly

[mixmkr]

I understand where you are coming from Nave, and I agree for the most part with what you are saying. I just felt I got cast in a light of being one who censors listens for whatever reasons, and that was something that I wanted to clear up and not give that impression. I think it started when I just said, "I am not too fond of listening to rough mixes"..... which in no way states that I won't listen...but rather I prefer not too. See my point ...and/or the difference? I didn't make that clear enough, and that was my fault. However, since I was specifically pointed to in your post, I felt I was being "labeled" as something I prefered not to be....and I wanted to let that known here. I do listen to "beta" mixes. Samicide has a great one going, that I find extremely interesting...and all his stuff basically, is a "beta" mix...and then he moves on (the music machine he is).

anyway....it is all for fun...none of us are getting rich with all the great music, and admittedly, I am having a blast being part of the "gang" at this clinic. I want that to continue....so...your last post was a good one Nave. rock on (or as cyan would say; "funk on!!"

[charger]

I think most of the time people post here because they want advice on a mix. Hence, "rough mix." When people post finished mixes, I listen to those too, but I'm always more insterested if someone's seeking advice then if they already know everything and have it all nailed down.

I think the reason there has been so little traffic lately is that this site has been a nightmare to get on to. 2/3 of my attempts I get the "too many users logged in" error message. I hope things improve soon...