Guitar Center

[rushfan33]

I want to GC today to buy a cable to hook up my BRC to the ADAT. I brought a cable that I thought was the correct one to the counter and asked the salesman if it was the right one for the BRC. The stupid mother f#C%er said.....and I quote, " BRC.....what is that?" He was serious!! I was there for over an hour and all I got was a Midi book and my cord. I'm sooooo sick of GC. They got my cash for the last time!

Thanks for listening to me vent.

[Track Rat]

I know what you mean. You'd think that a bussiness that sells things that cost anywhere from several hundred to several thousand dollars would have people representing the company with something more than single digit IQs.

[mastahnke]

I feel the same way about most big music stores. Much to my surprise though, the GC in indianapolis has been outstanding. very knowledgable and they bend over backwards for me. However, I know that is the exception to the rule. Support your local mom and pop shop if you can. Since I have moved, the great help is gone and now I am on the same page as everybody else at the music store...
--MIKE

[rushfan33]

What really fry's my goat is the fact that over the last 15 years, I've spent probably close to $40,000 at this store. It used to be that when you went there, the people knew who you are and knew what kind of money you spent. They treated you accordingly. Now every damn time I go in there it's someone new or it's someone who doesn't know anything about the department but they're working in that department while the regular guy or gal is at lunch.

I support the motion to support the local mom & pop stores.

Who's with us?

[Tonekat]

Oh yeah, my bass player and I bought most of our studio at GC a couple of years ago, and we were fortunate to have a young guy named Brian help us with our selection. Well, he left GC, and now it's been a constant parade that changes weekly, some more knowledgeable than others.
But here's a horror story: A few months ago, when having my Event 20/20 bas monitors pink noised, one of the tweeter unit's blew. First I called Event, and they wanted me to call one of their authorized dealers. So I call GC in Fairfax, and they say it's a special order, blah, blah, blah, the guy takes my credit card info, tells me his name is "John", and he'll have to get permission from the store manager to give me a discount on the price, etc, etc. Nothing happens, no tweeter arrives at my door, and I have an appointment with the pro to finish pink noising my control room the following week.
I call the pro audio dept again, and they say they have no record of the sale. Me: "Well, I placed the order with John". GC guy: "I'm John, it must have been Ron".
I call again: this time I get Ron. "Oh, it wasn't me, must have been John"
I finally gave up on their stupid name games, and called Event directly and placed the order (which, by the way, they confirmed they had never received from GC).
I still check my credit card invoices to see if they try to sneak this in.

[jeap]

you cant expect the doodz to memorize every xyz pdq 402ppg can you?

geesh the poor doodz get a job they hope will be fun and its such a bummer that they quit before they get good at it.

[esactun]

Originally posted by Track Rat
I know what you mean. You'd think that a bussiness that sells things that cost anywhere from several hundred to several thousand dollars would have people representing the company with something more than single digit IQs.

Why else do they audition Neumanns through a Behringer?

My take is that places like GC simply don't pay their employees enough to give a shit. I try not to ask questions.

[Seanmorse79]

I go to the local "mom & pop" music store every time I possibly can. He'll match GC or Mars prices (if not better), and ALL of their sales people know their stuff inside & out.

Thing is, they usually don't have much pro audio gear in stock and he has to order it. Then AND ONLY THEN, do I end up at GC (because I'm too impatient to wait).

[David Artis]

I've only been to one guitar center and that was on a trip to Atlanta once.

I think the average IQ was about 65-70. Functional but doesn't really know anything - especially about pro audio.

David

[rushfan33]

you cant expect the doodz to memorize every xyz pdq 402ppg can you?

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not but here's my take. Hell yes they should know their shit! It's not like I brought in a Black key from a keyboard and asked him to identify it! I used to sell furniture eons ago and there was about 50-60 different brands that we sold. Within those brands there were catagories such as sofas, chairs, tables, beds, mattresses etc etc...then there were sizes, colors, upgrades etc etc etc...
My point is that there was a lot of shit to know but I was able to quickly answer questions because I listened and I was trained.

It makes it worst because he was only in one department. It's not like he had to cover drums, guitars, amps, keyboards and pro audio. Something I didn't mention in the first post was that at one point the "salesman" went to the back to grab something for another customer and I thought "cool...I'll ask this other salesman and I'll be on my way!" Well chap my fu#$in' hide.... he didn't know what a BRC was either. Thats 2 out of 3 sales people from the pro audio department. I can understand not knowing everything but it's like me asking a mechanic if he can fix my fuel injector and him saying "what's a fuel injector?" He should be a professional and so should the sales people who represent Guitar Center.

You're either gonna get "It's the best...it's what I use".... or you'll get "I'm not sure what that is"!

Okay...I'm done! I'll step off the soap box now. Anybody else?

[bigbear]

Sorry to jump into this thread so late, but I couldn't agree more with rushfan33. I started going to GC several years ago and have sinced purchased 10's of thousands of dollars in gear. At the beginning, the sales people were very knowledgeable and extremely helpful. You wouldn't be in ther 5 min. before someone was asking if they could help. Now you can't get out in under an hour and your scrambling to get someone's attention.

The worst part is you have to ask all the questions, rather than having a knowledgeable person ask you what your looking for. The thirty day return policy is a matter of survival now. I don't know how many peices of gear I've had to return because it doesn't perform the specific function I originally asked about. For example, I asked one of the pro audio salesman whether the Sony cdr-w33 dithers when burning a cd from the digital input. At first he had to go ask someone, and then returned to assure me that it did. It doesn't, as clearly stated in the manuel. This was a very important piece of information that the salesman should have known.

So why keep going? Because the prices are just to good to pass up. I picked up an Alesis Masterlink for $840 plus tax and a Lexicon MPX500 for $279. You just can't expect any help with your purchasing decision, which is a real shame.

[veiledsaber]

We keep going there because it's the only place with that much stuff and such (generally) low prices. For all our complaining about the lack of knowledgable sales staff, we (collectively, maybe not everyone to a person) still aren't willing to pony up with 5-40% higher prices in return for great service and highly experienced staff. We have some fine shops here in Phoenix, but the fact is I can't afford to walk in the door usually. If service and knowledge were as valuable in general as we all believe, then Guitar Center wouldn't survive using their current business model.

Jon

[rushfan33]

Quite frankly....that's one of the biggest problems with this country today. The things people put values on have shifted for the worst and they're either too lazy or they don't care enough to make the change! It's pretty much the same in every huge store chain...like Wal-Mart, K-Mart etc etc. Sure the prices are great but the people working in these places are usually miserable and they have no concept of service anymore.

You're absolutely right....a person will not change anything. It will take people! The sad thing is that "people" won't come together to change things because people aren't willing to sacrifice 5-40% more of their dollars. Paying higher prices would be temporary if we all got together and voted with our dollars.

Until then Guitar Center execs will continue laughing their asses off at threads like this one because they know it won't affect them one damn bit!

GC

[jeap]

you know what?

instead of complaining...

you could get a job at guitar center and be a great little guy!

or...

you can just continue complaining!


if i was working at guitar center i really wouldnt care about some pompous dipwad whining about everything. if youre going to be so hard to please then why should they bother trying?

buy the stuff or dont. nobody should have to hold your hand through the process.

[rushfan33]

Jeap....I don't even know where to start but here goes.



It's people like you that work at GC and that are ruining it for everyone else. You're just like these sales people I'm talking about! Instead of listening to my needs you just keep pontificating. I've noticed that you've been a member on this board for just about two weeks and already you have almost 150 posts.
After reading them I noticed that just like GC sales people you don't listen to people's needs or problems but you seem to have an answer for everything. Maybe we should call this site "Ask Jeaps"!
You have no clue about the essence of this site! We're all here to learn and to hoan our crafts by being in the company of some great recordists...not listen to some jack ass regurgitate a bunch info he or she heard somewhere.
You crossed the line with your reply! There are ways to get your point across without insult or name calling. I just hope that people like yourself don't start a recording studio as the client would surely go away disappointed.
I can already see it.... A drummer will be telling you during a mixdown," I still can't hear the bass drum", and you'll say, " you know, I can't hold your hand through this. Instead of whining about it why don't you just play your bass drum harder next time! Why bother, you play like a little guy anyways"!

By the way here's some words from one of YOUR posts. You should probably follow your own advice.
("nobody is forcing you to read my thread so quit whining. This is an information gathering thread so if you have nothing to contribute then shut it.")


You're a class act Jeap!!

[jeap]

ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

i want to read the unedited version!!!!!

yes i guess i am a "class act" now that you mention it!

in my thread they were whining about the fact that the thread was there.

here i am not challenging the validity of the thread at all!

i am challenging the idea that guitar center employees should always be extremely knowledgeable and helpful.

thats like expecting mcdonalds employees to smile every waking moment.

guitar centers are high volume places that get very busy. the first day on the job i bet new employees learn that you cant please everybody.

i bet they dont make very much money at guitar center and they probably have to put up with a lot of impatience and abuse.

music store dude is low man on the totem pole in the music industry. since the cream rises to the top its only logical that the most capable ppls would leave that position for something better.

if you pay minimum wage you deserve minimum work. if you go to the store with the lowest prices you should expect the lowest level of service.

how can it be otherwise?

where is the controversy?

its only in unrealistic expectations that such disappointment arises.

just MHO!

just my .02!

[rushfan33]

What "Class" would be the question. The fact that you considered my thread "valid" really warms me up inside! I'm complete!



If you would stop the prattle that comes out of your mouth/fingers for just one second, you would realize that in my posts I said that GC used to be cool at one time. I can't imagine that they were making more money then they are now! Can you?
It's when dipshits like yourself started working there that the place went to hell. It wasn't about the money back then. It was about knowing the people that came in and being part of a musical society and being someone that these musicians can go to with their questions and problems. What's the alternative to GC for researching gear? Reading opinions from dipshits like you?
If you want to stick to your reasons of why the sales people are so snotty then I guess you must think they're not the brightest either. After all....they had a choice of where to work and they chose to work at GC where they don't pay much and where they would be miserable.
Your view on their attitudes is exactly what I touched on earlier. I know that if you worked at GC you would automatically assume that you couldn't please everyone so you wouldn't even try to please one! Your transparency suits you well!
You're not the sharpest tool in the shed..... are you?

[jeap]

if i were an employee at guitar center i would try to do well at all times and try to treat everyone well.

but its a two way street.

if someone comes in and has an annoying attitude then its hard to treat them the same as an attractive young lady with a lovely disposition.

i avoid the whole mess by buying mail order and i am very happy doing business that way.

i cant help but feel that you built relationships with certain employees over time and are disappointed that they are gone.

be happy for them!

you may have to spend more time building relationships with the new ppls but it can be done! almost everybody working at those places wants to have successful dealings with nice people.

i hope this helps!

[littledog]

You may find this related discussion interesting as well:

mail order vs. pro shop

[jeap]

really it depends on where you are and what you are interested in...

sam ash had brand new gibson sg's through their catalog one time. sg special with a bridge humbucker and special colors.
299$ how can you beat that? i hesitated a few weeks on that one and missed out...

[Seanmorse79]

I have a bit of mail order phobia (I know, I know). I hate buying something I can't have my hands on first, and I worry about things being damaged during shipping and having to send it back and wait for the replacement, blah blah blah. But Ebay is helping me curb that

There are certain things I just wouldn't ever buy via mail order though ...like a guitar. I know that people do, but I know I'll never be able to bring myself to do that.

If it's something electronic, I like to go to Mars or GC and try it out first - then buy it mail order if they don't match the price - best of both worlds.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally posted by jeap
if i were an employee at guitar center i would try to do well at all times and try to treat everyone well.

but its a two way street.

I'm with you on this one jeap. I've serviced the public for 25 years and I've run into many of the whiners born with silver spoons in their mouths that have more money than brains. If I spent $40,000 at a music store I would certainly depend on my understanding of the equipment and not some minimum waged employee working his way up through the music corridor. Personally this 'I have the money so I rule' arrogance makes me sick. Treat him accordingly, bah! Where do these guys get off calling someone "The stupid mother f#C%er" because he didn't know what a BRC is.

Then he trashes you for crossing the line when you pointed out his poor behavior and all he's done since is babyish namecalling and throwing insults without any foundation. And then he talks about transparent, Hah! He needs a mirror.

He claims "It wasn't about the money back then. It was about knowing the people that came in and being part of a musical society and being someone that these musicians can go to with their questions and problems." I have news for him, ITS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY!!! Boy, talk about naive.

Keep up the good work being a person and by the way what is a BRC?

[jeap]

i have no idea what a BRC is!

i have a feeling i dont need to know!

maybe its a computer midi or fake drum thing...

and yes ppls who serve the public get treated like dirt. it comes with the territory. you just have to try to block it out...

its no problem if one can slow down and look at things from the other person's perspective.


ive bought hmmm...

7 guitars 1 banjo 1 violin 1 electric bass and tons of other stuff thats been shipped ups fedex and usmail and i have NEVER had to send anything back.

when you get a guitar that way it is normally untouched since the factory and completely pristine. no fingerprints and no scuzzed up strings and no belt buckle scratches etc.

i set all my guitars up myself and i am amazed at the great quality of the workmanship i get. its so easy to set up the guitars ive gotten. the finishes have all been perfect. and the prices are way low.

ha ha ha i got 3 guitars and a bass during the "great dearmond blowout" and 75% off list is pretty damn good!

[rushfan33]

NYM....yes perhaps I was a bit harsh with my words describing the GC salesman. Why you seem to think that I have the "Holier than thao" attitude boggles my mind! you seem to have the notion that everything was hunky dory and then when I asked for a cable everything went to shit. Not true! This has been a gradual decrease in the quality of service. I will admit that this is only one store so I can't speak for every GC and GC salesman on the fuckin planet! True... business is about the money but some people stay in lower paying jobs simply because they love doing it and they're good at it, which reflects in their service. Some people don't have a problem with that.
As far as my comment about him crossing the line... I stand by that remark. There's no need to start wars over this. This was just a vent session aimed at an entity...not the salesman himself. As you can see by the number of people who have viewed this thread... I'm probably not the only one who feels this way.
Cool?
Cool!

[veiledsaber]

For those not aware - BRC is the Alesis timepiece/remote control for operating one or more ADAT (8-track digital recording) machines from a single control point. BRC literally stands for Big Remote Control. Go figger.

Back on the thread, as I've followed this, I haven't really gotten any sense of participants who have knowledge of the "inside scoop" at Guitar Center. I have not worked there, but I have been very fortunate to have two different band members and close friends work at GC over the years. Both were ultimately very successful and were long-time employees. One still works there, the other has moved on.

What I learned from each of them is that succeeding at GC requires a lot of stamina, patience, perseverance, and very long hours every week. Most people who are willing to take a sales job in that environment are younger and less experienced to begin with, so that kind of character hasn't yet developed for them. However, for those who can persevere through the early going (low pay, long hours) there are some benefits that GC offers that can lead to those people becoming not only successful for themselves, but also good, knowledgable salespeople. GC offers several levels of training that can lead to certification in particular departments or particular types of gear. Those certifications lead to raises and better sales knowledge. Over time, that can lead to a pretty good living for these people. There are also opportunities to expand knowledge into several departments, e.g. guitars vs recording/pro audio vs. keyboards, etc. The more they know, the more they may earn, the more they can sell, the more they get repeat business from individual cusomers. My friend in Phoenix has survived in his position for over 4 years, and is as knowledgable as any salesperson on the floor. The drawback he faces, as I do being a customer loyal to him when I make purchases, is that the GC atmosphere puts a certain amount of pressure to sell a lot of "pieces," since many times the markup is low. This means that he really needs to handle many customers a day to maintain his commissions. I don't get nearly the personalized time and effort I might be afforded at a more exclusive shop, but for me its okay since I trust him, and I am generally a well-informed consumer before I even go into the store to make a purchase.

I feel that he is exceptional in terms of GC's overalll sales staff makeup; I am also sure that there are other exceptions. For the most part, though, I think the core group of long-term experienced sales staff is a fairly small percentage; most of the sales people come and go pretty quickly, and as a consequence are largely useless if the questions get harder than "how much?"

So there's two more cents for spending on your thoughts.