recording bass (HELLLLLLLP!)

[ZEKE SAYER]

I JUST GOT DONE RECORDING A DEMO OF A SONG THAT I PLAN TO RECORD IN A FEW WEEKS. IT'S CALLED "STAIRWAY TO HEVEN"
IT'S WROTE BY LED ZEPPLED AND I THINK IT'S A COOL SONG BUT ANYWAY, I REALLY DON'T LIKE THE BASS TRACK ON THE DEMO. IT SOUNDS TOO...WELL LET ME JUST PUT IT THIS WAY... I WON'T IT TO SOUND BASSY,BRIGHT,CLEAR AND FAT, BUT WHEN I BOOST THE LOWS IT GET BOOMY AND MUDDY SO I BOOST SOME HI'S AND THAT HELPS ALITTLE BUT IT STILL IS NOT WHAT I WON'T. I ALSO TRYED BOOSTING THE MIDS AND THAT HELPED TO BUT IT STILL DID NOT SOUND RIGHT.

AND ON TOP OF THAT,I CAN'T HEAR IT WELL IN THE MIX, SO I TURN THE GAIN UP AND I HELPS, BUT I STILL CAN'T RELLY HEAR
IT WITH THE DRUMS,GUITAR,ECT,ECT

HERE'S WHAT I GOT TO WORK WITH...

1. FOSTEX VF-16 DIGITAL 16-TRACK RECORDER
2. WASHBURN BASS
3.PEVY TNT 100 AMP
4. A SHURE BETA 52 MIC

I HAVE TRY'ED RECORDING DIRECT BUT.....DON'T ASK!!!!!!


HELP!!!!

[Scooter B]

Zeke,

Are you going into a studio and paying money to record a cover song?..... I know people do this but I have never understood why. I can see someone trying to hone their skills by trying to replicate certain recording qualities to learn how to achieve specific sounds for future use but thats all beside the point of your question.

If you are going into a studio with a professional engineer etc take an example of what you want the bass to sound like if you have a CD or other example...even if it is the original sound from Led Zep that you want. Also make sure they use a good preamp or DI box on the bass. I have recorded in several local pro and semi-pro studio's in Oklahoma City and the best preamps etc always went to the vocals and drums and the bass got what was left over if anything. A good preamp can make an average bass sound much better especially with new strings if you want that brighter fuller sound.

If you are doing it at home with a porta studio there is another thread started just before yours today on gettting a good bass tone that I posted some info on and if you do a search in this forum on recording bass there have been some good discussions on equipment and techniques over the last year or two that are worth a look.

[Scooter B]

Zeke,

I just re-read your post and realized you posted the equipment you have to work with so ignore me ignoring the specifics of your question.

With your set up and referring to what I have learned from the consensus of many bass recording threads I believe you will still need some type of DI or preamp before the bass signal goes into your DAW to get the sound you are after. I have had good results with a combination of the SansAmp Bass Driver into an ART TubePac but I am going ino a cassette 4-track. There were several threads on what the best DI and/or preamps for bass recording were with several different opinions on this a month or two ago and I would recomend doing a search to read those. The Countryman DI got high marks from several people.

I am not familiar with all the Washburn basses (although I have an AB-20) it seems to be a common experience that unlesss you have fairly top notch active electronics in your bass ($1,500 -$3,000 basses) that you will need a good DI or preamp to go direct. The digital debate rages on but I have read several articles in Tape OP where specific producers indicated that getting good bass sounds were easier on tape (due to a "natural tape compression" that the tape imparted to the bass) and some of them even recorded to 15ips or 30ips tape before converting the track into a digital signal. That of course would not be practicle for you.

Regarding trying to EQ your way out of a lack luster tone...this rarely works well. If I have heard one comment here over and over more than anything else it is to do everything you can to get the best sound before you commit it to tape or digital storage. Second EQ is best used subtractively...any time you boost you will add some noise or distortion. I am not saying never boost but we seem to instinctively want to boost instead of trying to cut the over emphasized frequencies first.

[jimistone]

join the club
bass is the hardest thing to get right in a mix to me. like scooter b said...you have to get the sound right when you record it.....not try to fix it in the mix and make the bass track something its not.

[crosstudio]

my bass recording is as follows:

conklin groovetools --> tech21 sansmp bass di --> mackie1604 insert --> wavecenter/tango24 --> sonar

the sansamp bass di is pretty simple to use and sounds really good. although my groovetools is pretty good, i change the eq settings on the di box rather than the bass itself, and i can dial in what i need.

[christiaan]

Coincidently yesterday is the first time I got a worthy bass track recorded. It took my brand new Joemeek VC6Q and a fresh set of strings (elixir this time, I am wondering if they're really going to sound that good for as long as they claim).

Before the VC6Q, I struggled with a Behringer mixer and DI and what a difference it makes..

I never had the chance to try a Sansamp Bass Driver DI but I've heard that they're excellent. I was thinking about buying one but then I got the opportunity to buy a VC6Q voor just 30 Euros (close to $30) more than I would have had to pay for a Bass Driver. So now I have something decent for vocals as well.

A cheaper alternative should be the MXR M-80 Bass DI, which is more versatile than the Sansamp and from what I've read should sound just as good. I'm probably going to buy one in the future anyway, because I'd like to add a nice distortion box to my equipment. And it's very portable.

I've used Peavey TNT amps quite a lot and they're pretty fun to play with. I'm not sure if they would work well for recording, I only used them at rehearsals (where they worked fine).

To make a long story short: Scooter B made some good points and I think that you're going to have to invest in some gear too, to improve your bass recordings to a level that you're aiming for (should! aiming for). It should not have to cost more than a couple of good nights out though.

[ZEKE SAYER]

i'm saying my money for a pre-amp. i tink i'm going to buy one of
those new art v3 pre-amps (the one's that have the vocing) there avalible in a table toop size or a 2-channel rack. i tink that i'm going to buy this one because... 1. i've herd that there some of the best! 2. the 2-channel is only $179.99!!!!!! and i'm only about 40-50 bucks away from that!


do you think that this pre-amp is good??

[trpullen]

Originally posted by ZEKE SAYER
i'm saying my money for a pre-amp. i tink i'm going to buy one of
those new art v3 pre-amps (the one's that have the vocing) there avalible in a table toop size or a 2-channel rack. i tink that i'm going to buy this one because... 1. i've herd that there some of the best! 2. the 2-channel is only $179.99!!!!!! and i'm only about 40-50 bucks away from that!


do you think that this pre-amp is good??

Do they sell spell checkers in Georgia? Get one of those first...then the preamp.

T

[JohnWaynesTeeth]

hello ZEKE SAYER

I have never heard of this "Stairway to Heaven" or this so-called Led Zepplin. Do they play it on MTV?

[ZEKE SAYER]

led zeppled brokeup about 20 years ago. to learn more about
led zeppled and the song "stairway to heaven" go to...

www.ledzep.com

[sessionselect]

Originally posted by JohnWaynesTeeth
hello ZEKE SAYER

I have never heard of this "Stairway to Heaven" or this so-called Led Zepplin. Do they play it on MTV?

Don't watch mtv.....for the music at least. Led Zepplin was one of the greatest rock bands that of course game from great britain. Instead of wasting your time with mtv, check out some great rock bands from the past. You'll learn more from one Pink Floyd cd then you would from a year of TRL(there are very few exceptions). Check out Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, Beatles(i'm sure you've heard of most of these groups), Cream........the list goes on and on.

[JohnWaynesTeeth]

hehehe let me say it this way...

<sarcasm>I have never heard of stairway to heaven or this so-called Led zepplin. Do they play it on MTV </sarcasm>

I was having a little fun with the fact that ZEKE SAYER told us that he wanted to cover stairway to heaven which was by Led Zepplin.

#1 The first song that every kid tries to learn first (at least in the old days ) is stairway to heaven.

#2 You don't need to tell anyone who wrote stairway to heaven.

Except maybe my wife. She got this CD called Afro-Celt Explosion that has Robert Plant singing on one of the songs. True quote:

"This Robert Plant guy has that real stereo typical rock singer voice. Who is he?"

I've only cursed at my wife and hit her once.

[musikman316]

I was just wondering if ZEKE really couldn't spell or if he just likes to type words wrong all the time, and you never seem to say anything the same twice...

Led Zeppelin, not Led Zeppled...

Stairway to Heaven, not Stairway to Heven...

[ZEKE SAYER]

WRONG SPELLING HAPPENS WHEN YOU...UM....DON'T HAVE ANY TIME TO CHECK!!!




NEVER MIND......

[mojovoodoo]

HA HA HA HA this thread is getting hilarious!!!!!!!i guess it must be pretty dry out there not to get that sarcasm!!!!please don't spend any hard earned money recording stairway to heaven,in fact is it not rather painful to hear anyone one but plant,page,jones,bonham play it?cover's are painful,but i am not gonna disrespect anyone here.it gives much more pleasure to listen to that song and it's original production.there are a few guitar player magazines with john paul jones describing his rig,i believe he does a fender jazz bass through a fender bassman for early recordings,good guitar through good tubes,plus good playing=good recording.

[Wil Davis]

Ah "Stairway To Heaven" - my favourite version must be to one on FZ's "The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life", that and the version on the "Brave Combo/Tiny Tim" collaboration "Girl" - wonderful stuff...

- Wil

[esactun]

Originally posted by christiaan
Coincidently yesterday is the first time I got a worthy bass track recorded. It took my brand new Joemeek VC6Q and a fresh set of strings (elixir this time, I am wondering if they're really going to sound that good for as long as they claim).

Before the VC6Q, I struggled with a Behringer mixer and DI and what a difference it makes..

Yes, strings do make a huge difference. I didn't realize how much I hated my bass strings until I replaced them with DRs. (Good strings, cheap!) Best tone I've had since I bought the dang bass...

And the Behringer mixers absolutely suck as bass DIs. I'm not an anti-Berry guy either (I have one)-- they just really really suck as bass DIs. I'd love to check out the Meek stuff when I get more cash (just bought some toys as it is...), but I dig the tone I now get using the (in)famous Art Toob Studio as a bass DI. It just SO smokes the Berry in that department.

[Uladine]

All I can advise is to try not to boost when eqing, but cut. Its easy to overload a whole mix with just the bass guitar. haha I said "but cut". its funny.

[Ginzoo]

Hey ZEKE,I have a vf-16 and I record direct with my bass all the time with just a tad of compression from an old MXR unit.It sounds great.

Just keep trying new things and ways of getting new sounds with what you have.Thats what home recording is all about.And keep saving for the big stuff.

Dont pay any attention to the negative replies to this thread and dont worry about the spelling .We know what you are trying to say man.

[Neve]

Bass is really hard to get right!
The bass player really got to have his playing togheter to begin with. Fresh strings is a must....

I always record bass to two tracks, one track is trough an Avalon U5 DI, no compression and the second track is a mic`ed Ampeg 8x10 with 6-10dB compression from a RNC.

Works out pretty fine, IF the performance is decent....


Amund