ADAT Blackface

[tuna]

Hi.
I am looking seriously to buy an ADAT. The only ones I've found are BlackFace ones. Besides the usual hour count and state, are there any other point to watch for ?
I am affraid that they were not upgraded. Does this upgrade will affect the sound ? My main interest is home recording, but sometimes I would like to interchange tapes with other people. Most of them own a XT model...
Regards !

[pyssdogg]

-my opinion

-if it cost more than $200 , Don't buy it

[Track Rat]

One thing to be aware of if you intend on exchanging tapes with other ADAT users, you can play back a tape that was recorded on a 16 bit unit on a newer 20 bit (both the LX-20 and the XT-20) but a tape recorded on a 20 bit machine won't play back on a 16 bit machine.

[tuna]

Thanks for the infos and replies.
Overhere in Brazil is a kinda hard to find this kind of gear. The charge something like 2 times more than US prices...
Anyway, I found one about US$400, need to see if I can't get anything better than that.
I thought that Blackface alesis did some time ago was about the compatibility between newer models.

[jmorris]

you can but adat's all over ebay. I think 200 bucks is a bit cheap for an adat..even blackface. Get one with low hours,under 1500 hours to me is low. Alesis says the drum os good for up to 5000 hours. They are still very amazing machines. I switched to the HD 24 disc recorder but I DO low my old adats. I mean think about it.15 years ago we would kill for a recorder like a blackface with its sound and ease of operation and pretty much maint. free style....anyone remember the old days of cleaning heads and de-magnatising?? I would be carefull because I have heard that parts for the blackface adats are becoming not available,maybe move up to an newer model. Then again there is a bunch of blackface for sale,buy one and if it breaks, throw it away.

[tuna]

Thanks JMorris. I think that my wish to get an ADAT is because the impact it had sometime ago.
Its an easy to operate 8 channel machine, and more affordable than any DAW overhere.
Regards

[MISTERQCUE]

Tuna, you're gonna luv working with ADAT's, but see if you can either get a LX or XT rather than the BlackFace! At least you can work with 20 bits rather than 16!

[tuna]

Thanks !
I will try to focus on a newest model.
At least I think the parts can be easily found and I will be able to talk with anyother ADAT type.

[Stefan Elmblad]

One BIG difference is the Blackface vs all the Adats that followed is, and Im surprised no one mentioned this yet, that if you record on blackface and play it on XT or later, or the other way around.... the signal will be phase reversed.

Therefore the blackface is a little outdated, and can create problems, especially if you wanna swap tapes with friends who has the XT.

[MISTERQCUE]

Originally posted by Stefan Elmblad
One BIG difference is the Blackface vs all the Adats that followed is, and Im surprised no one mentioned this yet, that if you record on blackface and play it on XT or later, or the other way around.... the signal will be phase reversed.

Therefore the blackface is a little outdated, and can create problems, especially if you wanna swap tapes with friends who has the XT.

Ummm Stefan, how can that be!!?? I have a tape which was recorded by one of our own members here on BlackFace that plays correctly on my LX and XT. ANNDDD,
if it is recorded on singular,mono tracks, without being 2-tracked, when is the "phase inversion" introduced. I THINK you're mistaken! Kindly explain yourself.

[Stefan Elmblad]

The phase inversion is introduced (if I remember correctly) in the AD/DA converters. If you play back a blackface tape through a XT, chances are it might sound good. You're speakers are sucking sound instead of pushing and not all can hear the difference, also on some instruments and sounds, the difference is minimal.
But it's there, and if you mix tapes it will get worse.

And no, I am not wrong about this. I'm merely passing on information given to me by Alesis representatives.
I can't remember from the top off my head where they stated this, but it's official info and no hokuspokus.

[PTS]

The phase inversion you are talking about does not happen in the AD/DA converters. On the black face the digital out is phase inverted while on the XT/LX models it is not. A tape recorded on a black face and the played back on an XT will be in phase.


Paul

[cmick]

I have 2 blackfaces, and we had to rent an Lx-20 to get 24 tracks. Anyway, did a rough mix at a studio w/3 blackfaces, and the Lx-20 tape seemed to play fine in a balckface.

[MISTERQCUE]

Originally posted by PTS
The phase inversion you are talking about does not happen in the AD/DA converters. On the black face the digital out is phase inverted while on the XT/LX models it is not. A tape recorded on a black face and the played back on an XT will be in phase.


Paul

Thankyou PTS!! A signal cannot be inverted thru the AD/DA converters even when going from 1 bit rate to another. Basically , 1 should hear the same signal passed thru the BlkFaces converters as well as the LX/XT.
I think maybe he is referring to the non-dithering process which the LX/XT doesn't perform when playing 20bit to 16 bit.

[Stefan Elmblad]

Check with Alesis and find out, that's all I can say really.

[MISTERQCUE]

Originally posted by Stefan Elmblad
Check with Alesis and find out, that's all I can say really.

Thx anyway, though I have 2 ADAT's left, I'm now recording on the HD24! Besides, you KNOW how hard it is to get thru to Alesis!!

[wondercrush]

I love my 2 Adat blackfaces. I had a digital recorder and I thought the Adats really are better.

Besides, most of the trick is getting it to sound good before you send it to tape. Another trick is to find out all the little tricks to get more out of your Adat.

For under $1000, if you search carefully, you can have 24 tracks...

Let's all remember that everyone needs a place to start. I know some studios that are still using blackfaces and turning out good product!

[nwsoundman]

If I remember correctly the Elco connector is wired reverse to the newer models. It might only be different between the XT and others? I think it might even say something about this in the XT user manual.

[tuna]

What is this Elco cable ?
What do I need to check when I go yo buy an ADAT ? Like, manuals, remote controls, etc, etc. I already know the SET LOCATE + FF and SET LOCATE + STOP trick to see hours and bios version.
Usually, what came with the ADAT package ?
Thanks !

[gypsy harper]

This is probably an obvious point, but you may consider checking the serial number of the ADAT before you buy it.

I bought 2 black face ADATs years ago from a fellow with EVENT corporation. Down the road they began to wear out, so I called ALESIS about repairing them. They checked the serial # and said they wouldn't work on it because their records showed that the unit was loaned out and never returned, hence they did not recognize any other owners of the unit (!!!).

If you are still considering buying the ADATs, it might be worth a call to Alesis to check their records before going through with the deal.

That said, ADATs are sure easy to use.

Good luck...

[wondercrush]

That is an Elco cable. It connects to the back of the Adat and they come in different configurations. My Elco cables have 1/4" plugs to go into my mixer. You can get them with XLR's (as shown) so you can go straight into the Adat and bypass the Mixer.

There's a book that is all about Adats.

And they are easy to use - if you can use a vcr, you can use an Adat.

[tuna]

Cool, I thought that wasn't possible to connect straight to ADAT without using a mixer.
I own a small stereo pre-amp and a phonic 1705 mixer ( 5 mono inputs & 4 stereo inputs). I think I dont need nothing else to record with an ADAT, besides a compressor and more mics.
Thanks for all the info !