Got $300, need equipment

[elliot_carver37]

Hi everybody
I just got 300 dollars in a grant from my local government and I need to buy equipment. I plan on using it to make an album at home on my computer. I was told by a few guys that with it I should get an 8 track mixer (behringer), and sure 57 and sure 58 mics. I have my voice and my acoustic guitar. I was told to mic the amp with the 57 and my voice with the 58, mix to the computer.

Again i was told by another person to get these things:

Midiman Audiophile 2496 sound card
Midiman Audio Buddy preamp
Shure SM57
Behringer ECM8000 condenser mic

On another topic: What is the difference betweent the Shure SM and PG seres mics? The PG mics are only 50 bucks and if i can passs for the less expensive one then that would be great. Here is my list of equipment that i plan on getting as of now:

Behringer ECM8000
M-Audio DIo 2448 audio card
Midiman Audio Buddy
Shure PG 57 mic w/xlr cable

The thing is, i dont know enough about recording and stuff to know what is best. I have 300 i need to spend and i want a decent recording that sounds half way pro. Hope you can help!

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by elliot_carver37
I have 300 i need to spend and i want a decent recording that sounds half way pro.

Hate to burst your bubble, especially on your first post, but you need a reality check.....

If you're a complete novice when it comes to recording, and even if you had access to the best recording gear in the world, you're not going to produce anything remotely resembling a pro-recording.......

There's a significant learning curve to recording techniques that you need to overcome, not even talking about dealing with the gear itself... and if your budget only allows for "budget-gear", then your learning curve becomes even more extensive -- not only do you need to learn proper techniques, but you also have to deal with sonic limitations of cheap gear....

If you want to learn recording, that's great, start into it, but don't expect to be able to produce anything of quality within your first 6 months to a year at least!

Now if you want to get something on CD before that, your best bet will be to use that $300 and book some time at a local studio during off-hours or using their demo-rates...........

If you aren't in a rush, and seriously want to get into recording, $300 is pretty meagre to start with -- first you need some sort of recorder (decent soundcard with recording s/w if you're going the computer route), then at least 1 usable mic (Shure SM57), some cables, monitors (an absolute necessity - even on a budget -- I suggest Yorkville YSM1P - powered), mic stand, and maybe a pair of headphones....... I'm guessing you'd need at least a grand to even get going..........

Good luck with it......... stick around this site, btw -- lots of great info to be had here.......!

Bruce

[Gidge]

The Delta Dio card wont work for you...its a digital only (input) card and wont accept signals from analog sources.....

Get the Audiophile 2496
Get the Audio Buddy
Get an ECM8000
Get N-Track software

[Gidge]

also, heed Bruce's warnings....at your experience level (or mine for that matter), even $1000 wont get pro recordings......engineering and performing skills play much more a part in pro sound than the equipment......

[SPINSTERWUN]

Bruce, I could not have worded that better myself.

e_c37, you should listen to what we are trying to share with you.

Here is a start for you ................

http://www.studiocovers.com/articles.htm

[SPINSTERWUN]

and here...........

http://www.rane.com/digi-dic.html

peace, happy reading, and welcome to this site.

[elliot_carver37]

Ok first off i would like to restate the point that i want someting DECENT, my first cd was done with a computer mic, that was IT. What makes the options i listed not pheaseable? I am not looking to do something that is half-a$$ like the last one i did. I realize 300 isnt squat to work with, but its all ive got, I cant save it, it has to be spent. I dont feel comfortable working in a real studio right now, if you went to my website(http://www.geocities.com/elliot_carver37) you may have realized that i am only 15. I have multitracking software(Magix Music Studio). I have the will, and i know there is a way because people have told me there is. How somebody could make it seem like there was no way is surprising to me. Im sorry if im comming across a little brash but this is just my opinion and i am a little dissipointed at this point. THere must have been a time when you have been in this situation.

Please forgive me if i offended any of you, i needed to voice what was pent up inside. Thank you for your patience.

[Gidge]

if your Magix software is capable of 24 bit recording, it will do fine....if not give N-Track a try....it would be a waste to get a 24 bit soundcard without 24bit capable software......

[SPINSTERWUN]

Relax, e_c37. We are here to help you.

We were just sharing with you the realities of your endeavor.

We know like you know, that "if there is a will, there is a way".

We will help you come to a good solution.

[SPINSTERWUN]

Originally posted by Gidge
if your Magix software is capable of 24 bit recording, it will do fine....if not give N-Track a try....it would be a waste to get a 24 bit soundcard without 24bit capable software......

Great point, Gidge.

[Cyrokk]

Given your current setup, I would lean towards spending that grant money into getting monitors, then spend some time getting used to how they sound by playing your favorite cds on them. This will definately make some noticeable differences in your recordings. Look into Tannoy Proto-J's or Yorkvilles. Do you have a stereo receiver (aka amp) to drive them?

Cy

[elliot_carver37]

THanks for you patience guys, you can tell im having a hard time keepin gmine. Now that we get into it, things arent looking too good. Magix supports 16 bit recording. Remasters at 24 tho, dont think it matters does it? What good would monitors to for me, cant record with em. I understand what you are trying to say, but i dont see them as necesity. as far as an amp goes, i will say "no". im not sure exactly what i need to have so ill say no for safety sake.

[SPINSTERWUN]

Originally posted by elliot_carver37
.....What good would monitors to for me, cant record with em. I understand what you are trying to say, but i dont see them as necesity....

Monitors are VERY important part of your set-up!

It is the medium that lets you correctly hear the medium that you are creating.

You would also need good A/D D/A converters, but we know that you can not afford the ones you need.

p.s. You must understand that the information/criticism we are offering you is constructive-criticism.

[SPINSTERWUN]

Originally posted by elliot_carver37
....you can tell im having a hard time keepin mine....

You must always remember and understand that "patience is a virtue" AND "good things come to those that wait".

[elliot_carver37]

Ok, perhaps 300 is just too little, maybe, maybe i can sacrifice another 150 if it would help, make the budget 450. Ill have a job this summer so keeping in mind i may use some of that also keeping in mind i have to put about 20 or so precent away for college. so 450-500 dollars. Where does that put me?

[Cyrokk]

Monitors have a flat frequency response, which means what you hear on them will be a lot more acccurate than on computer speakers or regular stereo speakers. If you focus on getting the best sound possible through monitors, before you actually hit record, then you will be better off knowing how it will sound than through computer speakers, where it will only sound good on that medium. Furthermore, a good sound through monitors will yield a great sound in other systems.

Unfortunately though, you don't have a stereo to drive them. And powered monitors are out of your price range. So you will have to work with what you got, and I would next concentrate on recording software, that is, if you are finding your current software too limited.

Also, if Magix only supports 16 bit recording, then your recordings will only sound as good as 16 bit, regardless of whether or not it masters at 24.


Cy

[Cyrokk]

I just saw your post about stretching your recording budget.

500 would get you decent studio monitors as well as an amp to drive them. I still say you should go with monitors.

Cy

[gmiller1122]

Elliot -

I REALLY admire your interest in recording. And I understand your pov. I think it takes guts to want to get into this hobby and to be willing to get into it for $300. For all the over-produced, glossy stuff out there, there's nothing like an inexpensive recording of a great SONG. Remember that's why you're getting into this. (a great recording of a lame song is just sad).

Will $5000 make you sound better? Maybe, if you know how to use it. (I don't!) Don't let the inevitable frustration get to you. Keep plugging along and keep it FUN.

I have a set of monitor headphones ($70) that work well for me and I don't have to piss off the neighbors. They'll work fine for you for now and leave you $ for mics, etc.

Don't think you have to spend thousands of dollars to get a decent sound. You can do a lot w/recording in different places -- the stairwell, the bathroom.

I agree w/ Gidge -- nTrack is a great value (fasoft.com). I am just getting started w/it, but it fits my budget and works well so far.

HAVE FUN!!!!

[elliot_carver37]

The audio card problem will eat up my budget. I understand its importance but i think its just out of the picture. here is the current lineup:

Shure sm 57
Behringer 8000
Audio Buddy
ProtoJ Monitors

Total comes to 400 not including stands and cables.
What do ya say to that?

[Blue Bear Sound]

You need something to power the monitors with!

You should also pick up a book on the subject to start learning some technique.... I suggest Huber & Runstein's "Modern Recording Techniques."

Bruce

[Gidge]

those Proto J's are great...have a pair myself....but all thats gonna tell ya is your audio card sucks.....

and like Bruce said, youd still need an amp to power it $350-$400 will cover monitors only....i listened to your song at your website, i dont think think what you are doing merits monitors at this point.....

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by Gidge
i listened to your song at your website....

Actually so did I - I think before you even worry about recording you need to work on playing and musicanship (everybody starts somewhere!), but if you start worrying about getting into recording right now, you're not going to be working on your playing and singing..........

The areas you need to focus on, IMO, are - tuning (both vocal and guitar), timing (as in rhythm), and guitar chops..... THEN worry about recording it! (ie, you want to have something actually worth recording, right?!)

Keep at it, but don't try and do everything at once... keep on doing one thing at a time making sure you get that right before jumping to the next challenge.............

Good luck...!

Bruce

[elliot_carver37]

Ok, let me remind you all that that recording was done at least 6 months ago. I have improved greatly in both areas of musicianship. Lets not worry about my first recordings, that song, in fact, is one of the worst songs on the cd, it was just one of the smallest in size. i could not upload more than 5 mb worth of material at once. Please do not judge my need in equipment based on that one track. If necessary i could send you a better track via email to see what im really like, that is if your email handler can carry 5mb worth of stuff. The first album was a cross between a demo and just a total impulse action to record something. It just felt like i needed to. Many of the songs didnt turn out as good as planned, but what could i do, i had no resources. I was recording with ONE COMPUTER mic. that was it. I know im not great, but i AM better than that one song, for sure. Like gmiller1122 said "For all the over-produced, glossy stuff out there, there's nothing like an inexpensive recording of a great SONG." I know that if my audio quality improve, i can be much better at what i do, if i never hear myself like i really sound, i will never know. I will attach one of my better songs.

[chessparov]

elliot, here's another idea.

1) Audio-Technica MB4000C condenser $80 (vocals/acoustic)
2) Tascam 424 Portastudio $330 -less used on e-bay
(or 4 track minidisc multitrack $300 or less used e-bay)
ex. yamaha MD4 or MD4S
3) Shure SM57 $50 or less used e-bay
4) Decent pair of headphones $40 or less on sale
(ex. Radio Shack titanium model -don't laugh they're good!)

With some careful shopping you'd come out under $500 total.

Chris

P.S. The MB4000C takes a battery for phantom power.
You can dump tracks to the computer via the direct channel
outs on all the portastudios above BTW if you want to
mix/edit on the computer too.

[elliot_carver37]

Yes Chris, the total comes to...504.48. From music 123.com. The tascam is a b stock so the price is dramatically reduced. I already have a pair of studio headphones so thats out of the way. I dont think ebay is a viable option though, and it makes it much easier to order from one place. if it were my own money(i guess some of it its) it may be more probable. Any comments on the linup that chris proposed?

Added later:

Why couldn't I just use a regular mixer? They are available at much lower prices than the tascam(really the only decent analog recorder) and they would end up working the same way because inevidably i would be puting tracks onto my computer. This all goes back to my first post. If only there were one deffinate answer, then we wouldnt have a problem!