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#1
05-21-2002
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How to turn your old stereo speakers into the best sounding monitors you ever heard!
This is truly amazing! Read my post about it at VSPlanet:
http://www.vsplanet.com/ubb/ultimate...c&f=1&t=010966 /Anders 
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#2
05-21-2002
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You know what most of us think about it. It WILL give you phasing problems. You are adding 12 dB at 30 Hz? And at the same time cutting 7dB at 60 Hz?
I still think -even with stereospeakers- that just learning what the response of your speakers is and working with that is better than adjusting your eq to get a pseudo-flat response and still having to learn what the response is... Even with decent monitors you have to compare, get to know them, know what you want your mix to sound like on your monitors to get it best sounding on every other system. You want your monitors to be accurate. Flat is part of that, but accurate is what you really want. Massive equalizing will make them sound flat, but the side effects of that will make it less accurate. You don't want that. Oh well. If it works for you...
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#3
05-21-2002
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Re: How to turn your old stereo speakers into the best sounding monitors you ever hea
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Plus... the minute you move your head even an inch, those settings'll mean shit...... But I suppose that's typical of the advice you'd get at a BBS that FT hangs out at........ Yikes.......  Bruce
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#4
05-21-2002
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I agree with you this time BlueBear!
 You will get nothing even close to flat using this technique. It's even worse than than the old pink noise test, which is useless in anything but an anechoic chamber. Gotta take an MLS, and even then, and equalizer is only of limited use in correcting problems. ...umm....power response anyone??...
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#5
05-21-2002
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I would have agreed with you if I hadn't heard the results myself. No phasing problems (what I can hear), and it actually sounds quite good all around the room... All CDs I've played sounds absolutely outstanding compared to before. It sounds so real and clear. Very detailed. But you are of course entitled an oppinion. If you are right, then that can only mean that I just got very lucky with my settings... But... You can't really say anything if you haven't heard it for yourself and compared... I was expecting more responces like yours when I posted this post on VSPlanet... So I'm not surprised at all over your reaction...
/Anders
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#6
05-21-2002
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ANYTIME you put an EQ into the chain, cutting... and especially boosting... will add phase-related artifacts to the signal....... period... end of discussion.
AND as I pointed out, because of room modes and standing waves (which will be a problem in ANY room not inherently designed for sound reproduction), if you move even 1 inch from your "flattened spot", those EQ changes will be meaningless........ If you like the sound better, great - YMMV........... but you're fooling yourself into thinking you've actually improved it! Bruce
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#7
05-21-2002
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By the way, what is your reference? If you used the way these speakers sounded before the EQ as a reference it has quite a different meaning than when you are a guest engineer in alot of different studios.
Some systems do sound better with alot of EQ. But those really are inaccurate. And flat or not, if they aren't accurate, I couldn't really care about it. If they are accurate, they'd sound good without eq too. I really have trouble believing this... And those extreme settings! +12 dB at 30 Hz and -7 at 60hZ? I never even got that extreme with eliminating feedback live!
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#8
05-21-2002
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As I said... You have to hear it to believe it. But I won't argue. I could just as easily hold this method for myself... But now I thought others could gain from it... Apparently people just got upset instead... (In this forum anyway)... Sorry.
/Anders
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#10
05-21-2002
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I found a better use for my old stereo speakers than that.I set them on my old turntable,hooked up my casio keyboard to them,set it to the "rock organ" setting and "PRESTO" ,just like magic,they had the sound of a Hammond B-3 and 147 leslie.I hooked up a footswitch to the 33\45 rpm selector so I can "pedal" the leslie effect to fast/slow.The only problem is running out of speaker cord when it gets all wound up around the speakers,but I will figure that one out soon......
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#12
05-21-2002
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Naaa...Anders
Nobody is upset with you for dragging up this old discredited idea.We've heard this old chestnut a few times before,however. Let's say that you used a test measurement mic to get a really accurate mathematical curve of how your speakers in your room respond to test tones.You take this info and reverse it into a graphic EQ.Now all your mixes will sound perfectly flat,right? Nice idea,but... What you have failed to consider is what your mixes will sound like when played on somebody else's system.Unless the listener has your gear with mods,the sound will be just plain off,by the amounts of the "corrections" you have made with EQ. A better idea (assuming you can't afford to upgrade to monitors) is to use reference CDs to LEARN your gear inside and out.Use a well-produced CD of the style you admire,along with a graphic frequency analyzer like this to go to school.Compare the graphical readouts of the pro mixes to your mixes.How hot is the bass compared to snare,etc.? After you have your mix,you want to listen to it on as many different speaker types as you can.Home hi-fi,portable CD players,car units etc.Also,it is a good idea to check all mixes in mono for any phase problems you might have missed. Good luck and keep on learnin'
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#13
05-21-2002
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Boray,
I don't think anyone is trying to make you feel unwelcome. You are more than welcome to come and share your ideas, discoveries, and knowledge...and of course ask questions. It can seem a bit rough here sometimes, but that's only because a lot of people here have been around the block a few times, and really do know what they are taking about. When someone new comes in and touts their new ideas/theories, and resists the knowledge and experience of the elders of this community, it puts people on the defense. I lurked here for months before I posted, which allowed me to get to know the forum and it's members. This way I knew who the key players were, what technical level I should approach topics at, and what etiquette I should follow. It's not so bad here, it just takes some getting to know what we're all about. 
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#14
05-21-2002
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I, for one, am neither upset nor defensive....
...I simply know better!
Bruce
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#15
05-21-2002
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Boray, You can be offended and leave or suck it up and learn a little. Nobody is saying your home speakers dont sound better. We just like to make sure people are passing on good advice.
Either way, welcome.
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#16
05-21-2002
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The idea of eqing speakers started around the early 70s. I came back to OZ from the US with a new set of JBL speakers and a set of UREI 1/3 octave equalisers, ...CUT only!!!
we hired a calibrated mike and started with the white/pink noise thingy!! we also tried the sweeping tone method of speaker tuning. After 6 months we threw the lot out (except for the speakers) and I've never recommended it since.  cheers john
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#17
05-21-2002
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Ok, thanks everyone! No offence taken...
Tom Hicks, With those extreme EQs I had to do to get my speakers flat, I think it's more likely that the sound from my mixes prior to this EQ has been off by the opposite amount... Thanks for the rest of the tips. I already knew about them, but thanks anyway. And here is something I wrote in the thread in question: "For those who are still sceptic... This is not much different from Roland's own mic simulation or speaker modelling. It's based on the same theory... Think about it! Those mic simulations are probably never used by the real pros, but some people use them and like the results... This is exactly the same thing.... Even if you like the sound of your speakers and like to continue to mix on them, having an EQ effect patch like this is good to compare with, just like Roland's speaker simulations. But for me it's going to be the other way around. I will record and mix with the EQ tuned speakers and then when I want to test how it sounds on other systems (like old stereos), I will simply turn the EQ off... If anyone else tries this method, please tell me about your results. It would be interesting to know if I just got lucky or if this works on most old stereo speakers..." LooneyTunez, Thanks! I'm not exactly a total newbie, only to this forum. I excpected to get loads of comments on VSPlanet just like the ones people here gave. But maybe they hold back their comments just because they know me better. But for you I'm just a new guy comming in here with a very stupid idea (the way you see it.) I guess my problem was that I was too positive about it. But I was just so surprised over the great new sound... /Anders
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#19
05-21-2002
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eq
Boray,
As you can see by the above replys from a few of these guys they are award winning musicians with award winning productions, huge album credits, looked up to by the industry etc etc and are never wrong about anything to do with recording or music. not!!!. alot of big ego's here with f-all to back them up. stick to the planet newbie J
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#20
05-21-2002
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Ohmygod, Johnrg, well put!
Boray, pls see my PM, and welcome aboard!
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#21
05-22-2002
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I think it was the title of the post that got me more than the content.I have spent the last couple of evenings helping some good friends listen and mix their project.We were working in a well designed and built control room with a pair of genelec 1031a monitors.I don't know if any of you have had the pleasure of working with these,but they were really kicking my ass!
If I thought I could use an eq trick to make an old pair of stereo speakers sound that accurate,I would be the first to jump at it.But it ain't gonna happen.I have a set of dahlquist speakers that are fabulous stereo speakers,and I spent a lot of hours with an rta and a lab mic trying to make monitors out of them.I thought I had it nailed several times,only to find out in the end I was trying to turn a Corvette into a Ford pickup truck. Good Luck
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#22
05-22-2002
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Re: eq
Quote:
wanker...
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#23
05-22-2002
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Re: Re: eq
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/Anders
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#24
05-22-2002
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Quote:
And Bruce may seem pathetic to outsiders... So what impression do you think Johnrg just made? Owning a VS workstation is not a reference, believe me. (And I got one myself.) And certainly not against the massive amount of info bruce has already posted on this board, and the fact that he is running a real studio instead of 4 mics and a workstation. Normally I don't stand up for anyone here. But with the stupid post that Johnrg made, I think it's quit acceptable for bruce to answer back. Oh, and I don't admire bruce. I'd like to have his gear too, and he probably makes better recordings than I do with it, but I don't really care. I got other goals in life. And pickfighting here isn't one of them. I'm still cool with y'all.
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#25
05-22-2002
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Re: Re: Re: eq
Quote:
"Which would you choose; someone with a 50/50 smattering of knowledge and very polite,or 97% accuracy and blunt?" And so far, between Boray and this Johnrg wanker, you'd both have a lot to learn to even come close to the "50/50 smattering of knowledge!"
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