What is the best step to take?

[2lim]

Hey i feel like an ass asking this question(n o pun intended) but i have been doing four track recording for about half a year and i want to upgrade to something that will be able to record my band live(guitar bass vox, drums, maybe a second guitar) I figure eight tracks will do quite nicely, and i can do a little tweaking on my puter. Now the question is: will eight tracks be enough and what is the best eight track to get..... for someone with minimal recording knowledge.

[Proveras]

An 8 track is a very good and cool machine for your band!!!

but,
do not waste your money.
make a lot of research, learn the basics about how to make good recordings, and then expend your money.

other way, your gonna buy something and with the time your gonna say:
I wish I know this before...

you can do very good recordings with your 4 trk, and maybe you want an Eq, better mics or a BBE to bouncing instead of the 8 track.

and a compressor!!!

[This message has been edited by Proveras (edited 07-28-2000).]

[2lim]

Okay since my last post i have ordered a dbx compressor, so that is under control. As for mics, my collection is growing, and the band is pretty happy with the sound of them. As for bouncing tracks........ i am gonna snap if i hear that one more time. i NEED something for live recordings. I was coming here to see if i could get advice on WHICH 8 track machine will suit a person with basic recording knowledge, and a budget of about 200$ a week(after expenses). I also will be doing about 15 hours of recording a week if not more. SO anyone who has any input on this, please add it, i am open to all advice.


thanx,
2lim

[pglewis]

I have trouble recommending an 8-track machine because you'll probably outgrow it faster than you think. You hit the wall with the 4-track pretty quickly once you started toying with it, didn't ya?

Tweak with the computer now. You're at the perfect stage in the game. If your computer is fairly new, it should support at least 8 tracks with no effects. N-Track studio is pretty darn cheap. Using the mic-pres on the 4-track, you could experiment with multi-tracking on the computer, even with a cheapie sound card. Most cheap sound cards have a stereo line-in... which would allow you to record one stereo track or two mono tracks (one sent left, the other sent right) at a time. With a minimal investment, you might have a two-buss stripped-down 8-track already at home. And after 2 months of experimenting to learn how it works, you'll have $1600 to spend on toys!! Or, buy an 8-track and be stuck with 8-tracks.

[2lim]

Already looked at that option....... and again i would need a gadget labs or an isis card
to do live recordigns plus i would have to convince my parents that the computer should
go in the garage(i am only 17) also i can handle 3-4 tracks on ntrack due to my brothers
video card taking all the ram (32 meg card) my hard drive is slow and my proccessor is
not the best. I was looking for something more portable. i was thinking that an 8 track
would do me fine cause i never record mor than 8 parts to a song as it is, and if i really
need another track i can take the final mix of 8 tracks and put on another in ntrack.

thanx for the suggestion but i am still set on getting an 8 track. -2lim

[2lim]

Already looked at that option....... and again i would need a gadget labs or an isis card
to do live recordigns plus i would have to convince my parents that the computer should
go in the garage(i am only 17) also i can handle 3-4 tracks on ntrack due to my brothers
video card taking all the ram (32 meg card) my hard drive is slow and my proccessor is
not the best. I was looking for something more portable. i was thinking that an 8 track
would do me fine cause i never record mor than 8 parts to a song as it is, and if i really
need another track i can take the final mix of 8 tracks and put on another in ntrack.

thanx for the suggestion but i am still set on getting an 8 track. -2lim

[pglewis]

At least you've thought it out. Your reasoning sounds pretty valid to me.

[monty]

*valid*

[2lim]

Okay i kinda went off my original topic with that last reply..... i still need advice/recomendations as to what kind of eight track would be good for a person in my situation.

[lazyboy]

If you want 8 track simultaneous recording (which I'm guessing you do for recording live) I'm pretty sure the yamaha MD 8 is the only standalone out there right now that will do it. should cost about a grand +/- $50. For a few bucks more, there's the new fostex 16 track, but I don't know much about it yet. Other than that your into ADAT or HD which are more generally more expensive and require more outboard gear. The other alternative is the good old Tascam 8tr tape machine which should be reasonably affordable by now, if you're into tape. If not, like I said, you're probably looking at a minimal investment of $1000.

[2lim]

Okay reel to rell is looking kinda cool right now, i havce checked out the yamaha minidisc, and it is definitely an option. What model of reel to reel is fairly user friendly, and affordable at this point?

[Tim Brown]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2lim:
Okay reel to rell is looking kinda cool right now, i havce checked out the yamaha minidisc, and it is definitely an option. What model of reel to reel is fairly user friendly, and affordable at this point?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you're going to be looking at spending $500-$1,000 (USA DOLLARS) for a Used 8-track Reel to Reel machine.
If you get one with 1/2" Tape-that's gonna run you between $35 and $50 for a reel of tape (Abut 25 minutes of record time or so)

I don't think anoyone makes an 8 track reel machine anymore-it's essentially an abandoned format for now.

If I were you-I would save money, and get an 8-track HD machine, 8 channels of Compression (a pair of Behrninger 4 channel compressors for about $300 or so) and a Rackmount Mixer(Mackie 1604 Vlz Pro).

(You can get a Fostex Rackmount unit for about $1,000 dollars USA)

You wanted advice, So I'm tleeing you what I woul;d do if I wanted 8 tracks-and had a very limited budget.
You could do Demo's for people once you get used to the equipment, and have the gear pay for itself.


Tim

[2lim]

Thanx for the advice, i am gonna do a little more research and then make my decision MD8 or Tascam reel2reel

[pglewis]

Reel-to-reel also means extra maintenence. The quality of your recordings will suffer if you don't keep it in good shape. Few people consider the maintenence isses involved with working with tape storage.

[lazyboy]

2lim,

Sorry, I think I may have misled you with the tascam 8tr. reference. I meant the cassette type, though I couldn't remember the model#. I think its the Portastudio 688. I think it has only recently been discontinued. Lots of *thinking* huh? I get most of my info. 2nd hand from the other slouches on this BBS. And God knows, you can't trust anybody here. Seriously though, Look in the Fostex forum at what those folks have been saying about the VF 16. Its only a bit more expensive than an MD8, higher recording quality, twice the tracks, and internal DSP.

Tim, Just got a new rehearsal/recording space downtown today. I'm thinking of juggling cutting demos for other bands (still gotta finalize gear decisions) with the current thorn in my side, grad school. $15/hr. for my lack of experience sound good?

[2lim]

Here is my solution, it is not the greatest, but it will save me the most pain later. My guitarist bought a four track off ebay for like 50$ or something thinkind we could link the two four tracks together(HAHAHAHA) anyway we are gonna use it as a mixer to mix four drum mics into one input on the other four track, so we will be able to record live now , and this will give m time to consider what i really want , and also i will have time to save money.

[Tim Brown]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2lim:
Here is my solution, it is not the greatest, but it will save me the most pain later. My guitarist bought a four track off ebay for like 50$ or something thinkind we could link the two four tracks together(HAHAHAHA) anyway we are gonna use it as a mixer to mix four drum mics into one input on the other four track, so we will be able to record live now , and this will give m time to consider what i really want , and also i will have time to save money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That works!

I would say save your Money and go Digital. I went with Tascam Da-38's, and I'm very happy with the setup.
I was going to go with a 2" machine (I found an old MCI 2" machine for $8,995.00 with a brand new headblock), but I could not justify spending for 2" tape.
I knew that Unless I went with a pro machine, I was going to fighting the "Hiss monster", and i HATE Noise Reduction units-they just seem to suck the life out of recordings; so, I went with The Tascam Machines....I don't like Alesis, and I simply don't trust their machines. I've had to many problems using them.

So My Basic setup is a Pair of Tascam DA-38's, and a Mackie 1604Vlz Pro. I have my Mixer and my Outboard gear in 1 rack, and I have my DA-38's and my DA-302 Dual DAT unit in another rack beneath it.
So, the whole system is rack mounted and Portable-everything just hooks together via HOSE Snakes and Pathcbays mounted in the Backs of the racks.

Works great.

Tim

[CMiller]

Tim is right on almost everything he says. It's true that there is a certain amount of tape hiss with all analog recorders. That's the nature of analog, but...I have a Tascam MSR-16 with dbx that sounds wonderful. The tape hiss is minimal. I think you have to ask yourself just what exactly is acceptable quality? I bought my 16 track four years or so ago when I was building my first "real" pro-sumer studio and it's served me well. I use my computer (Cubase) now, but the only reason I did that was that I needed more tracks and editing capabilities.

In any case, although I'm not actively shopping my machine around, I would sell it for $1500. It's just not worth it to me personally to sell it any less than that. I have seen them higher and lower in price, so my price is probably around average.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by CMiller

In any case, although I'm not actively shopping my machine around, I would sell it for $1500. It's just not worth it to me personally to sell it any less than that. I have seen them higher and lower in price, so my price is probably around average.

The Tascam MSR16 was a really good machine!
I was looking at them, but I was really after the Rackmount 24 track that came out around the same time as the MSR16 (I think it had Dolby S).

I just hated the DBX on Drums , it just seemed to make the Cymbals "lifeless" everything else it was fine.

If all things were equal, and I didn't have to fight the Hiss-I'd probably go with a Mix of Digital and Analog-I LOVE working on the Videotape format. I worked with the open reel format for so long; of course, using the Tascam DA-38's isn't like a drastic change-I mean, there's still Tape, and it functions just like a R2R.
The only thing that I hate is no "Backwards recording". I used to layer in backward Cymbals and stuff....

Tim