Any tips for creating more depth?

[joedirt]

My mixes have greatly improved since I started coming to this board, thanks! All the instruments seem to have their own place in the frequency spectrum and the stereo image sounds good but now my mixes seem to lack the depth. Reverb alone doesn't seem to do the trick. Any other tips? maybe playing +/- with 5k?

[BrettB]

Quite hard to know what you mean with 'depth'.

When you say all your instruments fit in great in the frequency spectrum I'm not really sure what you are lacking. Not enough punch in the bass? too muddy mids? missing high end?

give us more info.

greetingz

Brett

[A1A2]

from what I have heard here, our ears pick up mid range more, so, some cut at mid will push it back a bit. Delay will help also.

[chessrock]

Some suggestions for adding depth:

* To me, depth starts with the drums. If they are tracked well, and in a good room, mixed tastefully, etc., then they have a way of adding an enormous amount of depth to a mix -- like night and day.

That's where I would start. Make sure the kick has a lot of "oomph" to it, the snare has ample "crack" and punch, the bass guitar is mixed well with it, and that the cymbals have the right amount of sizzle without "grating."

Throwing some tamborine and shakers in can really help round things out, as well. You'd be surprized how much they can add, as not much is generally going on over 4 khz other than random "sss" and "sshh" out of the vocals, or cymbal crashes.

* Other than that, I would look at using room reverbs. Keep in mind that less really is more here . . . don't go overboard on big hall verbs, unless that is the style/effect you are after.

* Stereo micing. Using a matched pair of decent mics on the drums (as overheads) and accoustic guitars can add a lot of depth. So can using two different mics on the guitar amps (maybe a 57 on the grill and a LD condenser 3 feet back).

[Blue Bear Sound]

Damn Chess... you forgot --> adding enough reverb will give ANYTHING more depth!!!


Bruce


(sorry... couldn't resist!)

[Chris Shaeffer]

In case it wasn't clear enough the first time:

Drums.

They're the base of the song and if they have a nice stereo image they set the stage for the entire song. They define the space that the song exists in.

Have fun,
Chris

[crawdad]

Using multiple reverbs is a tool that can be used for getting more depth or a feeling of space. If you think in terms of early reflections as well as the size of the room you envision to create, you'll realise that the instruments that are closest to you will have less verb/early reflections than the instruments that are farther away. I'm not talking halls and cathedral style reverb either. More like variations of a single room. The shortest decays would be less than a second and the longest might be close to 2 seconds. Distance = more early reflections and more reverb time. So if you want something up front, use a shorter verb and vice versa for the sounds you want to push back in the mix.

As was already mentioned, EQ can help with this. Think duller for background and brighter for foreground.

The last thing is panning if you are dealing with stereo sounds. The ear hears more left right separation when in close proximity to a source. For example, if you are standing three feet away from the drum kit, you can hear the right/left placement of every tom, cymbal, etc. If its 12 feel away, that perception starts to deteriorate toward mono.

I would play with all three of these and see what effects you can create.

[rtzstudios]

I don't think anyone has mentioned delay yet. Instead of using tons of different reverbs, stick with 2 or 3 and utilize your delay.

[JuSumPilgrim]

Chess's shaker idea can be brilliant and does alot more than you would think. I used to hate tamborines until I realized that their point is much more spacial than rhythmic. They also dont have to be doing straight sixteenths. Quarter notes or syncopated dotted eighths with a nice reverb can be beautiful.

As was said, drums cue the listener on the space of your mix bec:


1) They move quickly. The drums serve as constant cues about the perimeters and depth of the mix. They dont stay in one place (if your dealing with a decent drummer) and if you panned well.

2) They cover the entire frequency range from top to bottom. Thats the up and down sense of your mix.

3) reverb on the drums, particularly the snare, hi hat and cymbals even in small and differing amounts does alot for the sense of space.

4) This is something I only started doing a few months ago and it has helped alot. When you pan, use the entire stereo field from left to right. I used to use only 70% or 80% of the stereo field. Double and triple tracks and pan them all the way left and right in particular spots to open the mix. This works well with strings, synths, guitars, some vocals, etc If you listen to your favorite CD youll see that the mix is constantly opening and closing. This is one of the main reasons demos sound like demos. Bec the stereo field is under utilised and not dynamic.

[joedirt]

Great stuff gang! Just by going back over my last three or four mixes and tweaking the drums has made a huge improvement. I soloed the drums and eq/effects them as a kit and not as several instruments. I was able to get them sounding much better and then worked my way up from there. Can't wait to start my next mix!

[chessrock]

Originally posted by Blue Bear Sound
Damn Chess... you forgot --> adding enough reverb will give ANYTHING more depth!!!

Which reminds me . . . when all else fails, be sure to stick random sound effects at the beginning, ie - locomotives departing stations, etc.

Oh, and be sure not to use FAUX TUBES. ie - any non-tube processor that places a tube in the signal path for added warmth. Some people around here have actually been known to shit REAL BRICKS over this type of error (kind of like bears shitting in woods).

[crosstudio]

i'm finding that i can get depth from a good recording and the right compression, eq, and panning before i have to start reaching for the delay, and reverb. that way i can use those tools as effects instead of mix fixers.

lately i've haven't been using much revereb at all on my lead vocals. i've mostly been using reverb on backing instruments and back vocals. except on slow songs.

someone mentioned shakers and tamborine. johnny marr (The Smiths) was great at bringing in a shaker or tambourine at just the right moment in a song to increase the energy level.

although i do hip-hop/r&b tunes i try to get that kind of energy going.

[TexRoadkill]

This site has a great article on depth in mixes and a bunch of other stuff.

www.digido.com