using special speaker cables

[mcr]

is it necessary/worthwhile to buy special speaker cables to connect monitor speakers? Could I not just use some instrument cable?

[drstawl]

Just get some good quality cables with the appropriate ends.
Balanced if your monitors support that. Powered monitors don't take a amp-output-level signal so you don't need fat speaker wires.

[mcr]

cool, thanks stawl

[Tom Hicks]

A cheapo way is to make your own using regular electrical cord from the hardware store.18 guage zip-cord or lamp-cord will do it.

[Blue Bear Sound]

I would say go with the smallest gauge you can afford - Certainly not higher than 14..........

Bruce

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by Blue Bear Sound
I would say go with the smallest gauge you can afford - Certainly not higher than 14..........

Bruce

You guys are kidding, right?

Lamp cord?

I just rewired my monitoring system the other day - was using the lamp cord - went over to Monster XP - the difference was awe-inspiring. Suddenly my mixes were clear again, detailed, rich - and my amp isn't working as hard to deliver the goods - I was consistently running it at between 40-50% power to drive these speakers, but now with the XP cable, I'm only using 15% power to get the same volume level with the same speakers. Only difference was the speaker cable.

Don't cheap out on your connectors. You won't know what you're missing, but you'll miss it.

[Ethan Winer]

Griffinator,

> my amp isn't working as hard to deliver the goods - I was consistently running it at between 40-50% power to drive these speakers, but now with the XP cable, I'm only using 15% power to get the same volume level with the same speakers. Only difference was the speaker cable. <

Do you work for Monster? The notion that a different speaker wire of the same gauge can affect how hard an amplifier works to deliver a given loudspeaker volume is ridiculous.

Please explain how you determined the amount of power (40-50% versus 15%) used by the amp to achieve a given sound volume. How did you measure the power, and how did you measure the volume?

--Ethan

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by Ethan Winer
Griffinator,

> my amp isn't working as hard to deliver the goods - I was consistently running it at between 40-50% power to drive these speakers, but now with the XP cable, I'm only using 15% power to get the same volume level with the same speakers. Only difference was the speaker cable. <

Do you work for Monster? The notion that a different speaker wire of the same gauge can affect how hard an amplifier works to deliver a given loudspeaker volume is ridiculous.

Please explain how you determined the amount of power (40-50% versus 15%) used by the amp to achieve a given sound volume. How did you measure the power, and how did you measure the volume?

--Ethan

Lamp cord: 18 gauge.
Monster XP: 14 gauge.

Big difference.

Amount of power: determined by looking at the volume knob position on the amplifier.

Measured the volume with an SPL meter before and after.

[TexRoadkill]

Griff- Going from 18 to 14 gauge could make a big difference in and of itself.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
Griff- Going from 18 to 14 gauge could make a big difference in and of itself.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Using cheap lamp cord (low strand count, 18 gauge) is just stupid.

Only reason I mentioned Monster XP is because that's precisely what I just installed - it's oxygen-free, fine-strand, 100% copper, double-shielded, quality wire.

You'll likely get the same results from a lesser wire, but I know that it's difficult to find 14 gauge speaker wire that doesn't have the word "Monster" on it. Acoustic Research's biggest cable is 18 gauge. Recoton's is 18 gauge.

Use 14-2 electrical cable if you want. I could care less. I'm just saying that consumer-grade 18-gauge speaker wire, or worse yet 18 gauge lamp cord, is stupid.

Your audio system is only as strong as its weakest link. That includes cables.

Would you use a cheapo Radio Shack XLR cable to connect your Neumann U87 to your Neve preamp?

Why would you use cheap lamp cord to connect your Apogee D/A converters to your NS-10's?

[Tom Hicks]

Because it works fine.
Griff,I'm glad you got good results with the monster cable.Maybe its the top end gear that you mention using with it.In college,I worked for an audiophile speaker mfg. here in Ft Worth called Toby Corp. and Toby (the boss and designer) specified 18 guage zip cord for wiring all the speakers in our showroom.
I also have a monster cable I bought because of its percieved reputation and have tried it in comparison both with my live guitar rig and at home in the studio.Perhaps my ears aren't as golden,but I just don't hear the amazing difference you claim.It could be due to me having a lessor grade of gear.I have a Hafler P1200 amp going to Kenwood Hi Fi speakers.The live rig is a twin-type tube amp into an EV12L.
But,as they say,YMMV.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by Tom Hicks
Because it works fine.
Griff,I'm glad you got good results with the monster cable.Maybe its the top end gear that you mention using with it.In college,I worked for an audiophile speaker mfg. here in Ft Worth called Toby Corp. and Toby (the boss and designer) specified 18 guage zip cord for wiring all the speakers in our showroom.
I also have a monster cable I bought because of its percieved reputation and have tried it in comparison both with my live guitar rig and at home in the studio.Perhaps my ears aren't as golden,but I just don't hear the amazing difference you claim.It could be due to me having a lessor grade of gear.I have a Hafler P1200 amp going to Kenwood Hi Fi speakers.The live rig is a twin-type tube amp into an EV12L.
But,as they say,YMMV.

It's not a higher grade of gear that's at issue here - it's one gauge of wire vs. another.

What I just upgraded wire on was an Onkyo M-5000 discrete power amp to a pair of Infinity RS-2 bookshelf speakers - and it was like night and day. All other aspects of the system remained exactly the same, and I was stunned by how much headroom I gained by upgrading the wire. I didn't change the amplifier volume setting before I fired up the CD player to see how much of a difference it had made - I had to quickly turn it down as soon as the first notes started to play, because it was hurting my ears.

I'm curious to know what gauge Monster cable you used. I don't think it's the brand as much as it is the gauge.

As far as manufacturer recommendations are concerned, I don't put any stock in that at all. I sell home theater equipment at my day job - the surround packages I sell - every single one of them packages chintzy little 22gauge wires with the systems, and every one of my customers who bought the heavier cable to go with it say it's an incredible difference.

Like I said - go get the industrial 14-2 electrical wire (14gauge, 2-conductor) - it'll still be a huge difference.

Or, as a friend of mine that does use $8,000 D/A converters and $5,000 studio monitors said to me a bit ago, continue using low-strand, small-gauge lamp cord, and find yourself replacing speakers every two or three years because you're introducing square-wave distortion to your speakers from that thick-strand wire.

[Tom Hicks]

Being a non-technical type I am on shaky ground.My understanding is that the thicker the wire,the less resistance (to a point).Raw wire is certainly inexpensive enough.I'll pick up some 14 as you suggest and let you know if I can get an audible result.My runs are 3-4 feet from the amp to the speakers so that may also be a factor also as to why I haven't noticed as much difference as yet.
Thanks Griff.

[Griffinator]

1) I don't know that I'd use raw wire - you do need shielding.

2) You may not notice quite as dramatic a difference on a 4 foot run, but you should hear a difference.

[drstawl]

Shielding on a speaker wire? Or are you just talking about that rubbery plastic stuff that's called "insulation"?

For my amp to speaker connect I use 12 gauge no-name speaker wire for a 6 foot run on each side. Works great. The only advantage of this over stranded industrial electrical wire of the same gauge (that I'll admit to believing) is the fact that + and - are molded together with a color code on the wire indicating polarity. I also use this to wire the drivers in my guitar amp speaker cabinets to the jack(s).

[Blue Bear Sound]

Griffinator... I can cable-snob with the best of them (and I do! ), but using 12-gauge Monster Cable or 12-gauge Home Depot electrical cable will result in NO difference in sound quality....

Between 18 and 12 - yes... I can accept that, but not between Monster's 12-gauge and No-Name's 12-gauge!

Bruce

[tdukex]

Originally posted by Griffinator
1) I don't know that I'd use raw wire - you do need shielding.

Shielding? Like drstawl I'm not shure if you meant insulation. I was recently told by an audio pro that if you use shielded wire for speaker wire you risk burning/blowing either your speakers or your amp. I can't remember which or the exact technical explanation, but I have never seen shielded speaker wire either.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by tdukex


Shielding? Like drstawl I'm not shure if you meant insulation. I was recently told by an audio pro that if you use shielded wire for speaker wire you risk burning/blowing either your speakers or your amp. I can't remember which or the exact technical explanation, but I have never seen shielded speaker wire either.

You are correct - I meant insulated, not shielded.

And Bruce - I'm not trying to pitch Monster cable. At least twice in this thread I have said "you could use 14 gauge electrical wire and accomplish the same effect"

[Blue Bear Sound]

Yeah... I know.... just driving the point home, I guess!

[sjjohnston]

Originally posted by Griffinator

... Why would you use cheap lamp cord to connect your Apogee D/A converters to your NS-10's?

Uhm ... I think you're going to have some problems with just about any cable you use to connect an Apogee D/A converter to your NS-10s (unless you've got one of those magic "straight-wires with gain" people talk about).

This may be symptomatic of a general failure to distinguish between line-level and speaker-level connections above. Use shielded (really shielded, as well as insulated) for line-level connections -- relatively thin (high gauge). Use zip-cord or the like (not shielded, but insulation is a good idea) for speaker-level connections -- relatively thick (low guage). If you really, truly believe two cables made of the same material in the same gauge from different manufacturers are really different, go ahead and buy the expensive one if it makes you happy. Or, if you believe cryogenically treated high-oxygen multi-stranded silver is good, you're free to believe in that too.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by sjjohnston
If you really, truly believe two cables made of the same material in the same gauge from different manufacturers are really different, go ahead and buy the expensive one if it makes you happy. Or, if you believe cryogenically treated high-oxygen multi-stranded silver is good, you're free to believe in that too.

Well, I don't know about the rest of that stuff, but if you know where I can get silver wire instead of copper, show me the way - silver is a better conductor than copper.

I don't believe that identical gauge from different manufacturers is anything but identical. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but 14-2 construction-grade electrical wire would do you just as well as 14 gauge Monster cable. The only potential difference would be how finely stranded the 14-2 was.

[sjjohnston]

In my post above, the word "you" was meant to be general (you, whoever you may happen to be, who is reading this), rather than to be directed at anybody in particular.

[barefoot]

Originally posted by Griffinator
...but if you know where I can get silver wire instead of copper, show me the way - silver is a better conductor than copper.

I can give you a source, but silver is has only 6% higher conductivity than copper - hardly worth the exorbitantly higher price.

It's far cheaper and actually much more of a conductivity gain to just move to the next heavier gauge of copper wire. And if you want to get that nitpicky, you might argue that silver wire is a bad idea since the wire inside your speakers and amplifier is copper and the difference in conductivity will create a reflective transmission line interface.

Of course that transmission line argument is complete bullshit for audio signals, but then this whole subject is bullshit. The only advantage in buying expensive wire is that it provides a big fat placebo effect for those who believe it makes a difference.

barefoot

[NoFO]

ya put your fat cord in, you take your thin cord out, you put your fat cord in and you shake it all about...

ya do the cordy pokey and you shake it all around....

that's what it's all about...

[darrin_h2000]

36 cents a foot for 12 guage stranded speakerwire at the home depot. like 7.00 for 20ft. should be as good as you will ever need.