have you had this problem?

[dobro]

I'm listening to my stuff a lot more closely than I was this time last year. I have monitors to listen through, for one thing. I'm doing comparative mixes of the same tune for another, then tweaking and repeating the process. What's happening is this: I'm really hearing the mistakes in the performance a lot more. So I redo the performance of the song. Nothing sounds good enough any more.

[jet-rocker]

I know the feeling. Don't scrutinize yourself to death.

Throw on some Woodie Guthrie, or maybe even Ramones. Listen to what's going on. Hear the mistakes? Do they really matter?

Remember making music should make you feel good--bottom line. It shouldn't be a masochistic excercise.

Also in these forums there is too much emphasis on gear over performance and songwriting.

I've heard your stuff, you're pretty good. Get a strong performance (don't worry about perfection) and that captures the energy and emotion.

A great performance won't cut it if you're bored with it. Capture the energy while its fresh, and don't sweat the microscopics.

-Jett

[TexRoadkill]

It never ends. Eventually you just have to say 'fuck it' and move on.

[Track Rat]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
It never ends. Eventually you just have to say 'fuck it' and move on.

Ain't that the truth.

[dobro]

Thanks - these responses were really useful.

It's a balance, I guess, and sometimes a tradeoff - there's the quality of the performance in terms of being free from mistakes and there's the quality of the performance in terms of the feeling/inspiration. And then there's the quality of the recorded sound. I'm trying to get all three. I've been working on this album since January, though. I wanna move on.

I've always thought we should have a 'psychology' forum here for things like this - traps, deadends, vicious cycles, relationship issues, fears, performance tension, self-image issues, despondency, blocks - the mental and emotional side of recording rather than gear and mic placement.

[TexRoadkill]

If there is one thing I've learned in my forays into the entertainment industry it's that the most successfull people are the ones who can actually finish a project.

Simply finishing an album, screenplay, or movie puts you in the top 5%. Even if it completely sucks.

[Downside Studio]

When mixing stuff, it's very hard to keep a subjective view. you are so closely involved in the product that you most likely loose sight of the big picture. This is very natural. If you finish the product and are confident it's 99% ok, you can be sure that when listening to it a couple of weeks later you hear things that make you say...'how the hell could I not have heard that when mixing?'

If possible I try to have several days or weeks between recording and mixing. After all is recorded I make some quick mixes, and record them onto cd. Then i listen to this cd whenever I'm in the car, or not doing anything intelligent. At first, you're still under the impression you've done a pretty good job so far, but the more and more you listen to it, more things are starting to annoye you. After a couple of days, you know exactly what to pay attention to when finally mixing the stuff. Works well for me.

[Roel]

Originally posted by dobro
there's the quality of the performance in terms of the feeling/inspiration.

To me this is the most important one. Playing technique is just what you need to back it up, recording technique is what you need to capture it as good as possible, but feeling is what it really is about.

Downside is right, let it rest a while and see what you got. You'll hear alot of mistakes, but I also have recordings of solo's that I didn't like at the moment, and when listening a month later, I'm really impressed cause they are inspired, I'm doing stuff I never tried before, I'm rocking. There are mistakes in there too, but that's not what matter, after all, you're the only ones that here them. I've had people coming to me telling me that my solo was the only part of that demo they still listened too. It was the first take, first time I did it. And I really didn't like it at the time.

Just go with it. You'll learn alot more with going further on new songs and projects than redoing the same one over and over again. And btw, you're supposed to hear more mistakes. That's what makes it possible to make it sound good. The average listener doesn't hear these mistakes. Or not conciously at least. You are training your ears, remember that. Listen to other budget recordings. You'll know what I mean.

[knownuttin]

To answer your question Dobro, yes this has happened to me. I have discovered that the more I mix and monitor carefully, the more I discover performance errors. I've also discovered the reason for it. It's because I suk as a player.

That's harsh, of course. I'm good enuff for live, and I'll occasionally ace a take the first time. More often though, the reality is I need multiple takes and sometimes still get to comp together something I hope will be passable. IOW, I'm no threat to any session players.

Bottom line, there's a reason Brian Wilson hired The Wrecking Crew as soon as he was able.
-kent

[JR#97]

Originally posted by knownuttin
To answer your question Dobro, yes this has happened to me. I have discovered that the more I mix and monitor carefully, the more I discover performance errors. I've also discovered the reason for it. It's because I suk as a player.

That's harsh, of course. I'm good enuff for live, and I'll occasionally ace a take the first time. More often though, the reality is I need multiple takes and sometimes still get to comp together something I hope will be passable. IOW, I'm no threat to any session players.

Bottom line, there's a reason Brian Wilson hired The Wrecking Crew as soon as he was able.
-kent

hear hear (or is it here here? anywho...) The main reason I haven't sunk absurd amounts of money into gear is because I've already identified the weakest link in my recording chain... the connection between my hands and the guitar... I don't think they sell a high end one of those.

[knownuttin]

Good point, JR! So, does anyone know is it "Here, here!" or "Hear, hear!"? I've often wanted to say it, but was bashful about not knowing the correct spelling, or moreso, what the heck I was really saying! Always settled for "Harumph!"
-kent

[dobro]

It's 'hear, hear'. It's like 'I hear what you're saying!' or 'Hear what he's saying!'

knownuttin and JR: you were being autobiographical when you said your performance was so-so. That may be true. It may also be true that it isn't as bad as you think. There are mistakes, and there are mistakes, if you know what I mean. Just as I don't know how good or lousy your playing is, what's coming out of this thread is that *everybody* has a shifting perception of how good their stuff is.

But there are some really good ideas in this thread. Go for the heart and soul of it more than for technical excellence - that's the main message that comes through. I think that's really good advice, and I'm grateful for being reminded of it. Sometimes I know things, but sorta forget them in the confusion of the moment, and it's useful to be reminded of them by someone who's feeling calmer and clearer than I am.

[JR#97]

Hey dobro, I know I'm not as bad as I think. But I'm not as good as I want to be either. Most of my stuff is solo acoustic fingerstyle. No where to hide. So yeah, when I hear my favorite acoustic artists and then listen to my recordings, I'm gonna cringe every time. That's why I could probably use a producer. Paying someone to say shut-up and go home... print it! that's probably why record companies use producers... so that projects actually get done!

[StevenLindsey]

I doubt you'll ever like your own sound. Everybody thinks they sound terrible when they first hear themselves. I generally hate my stuff. Sounds like gurgling in a sewer to me. But when other people hear it they like it. Some have told me I ought to try to sell it. I don't think so! But one thing you have to remember - the point of making the music is not to make perfect sounds. It's to make people FEEL what you are trying to say or portray. It's artistry. If you think about it, you loved the old music ( if you're as old as I am ) because of the way it made you feel. Some of the most popular songs aren't that well recorded or even that well played. You can just tell they were inspired to do it and felt it when they played or sang it. Most new music, IMHO, is just canned, cold money-making dead fish. I have found that when I begin to pick apart the music and critically evaluate each part, I begin also to lose the fun and magic. A good song has synergy. One part of it by itself just sounds dead and weird. But when you put it together it becomes a different animal. If you have no enjoyment or inspiration in your music, it can be heard ( or not heard-felt). If you've got it, the audience will feel it and be carried to where you're trying to take them. It is the spirit of the music that counts. That's what separates the millions of wannabes ( like me ) from real musicians. How do you like my novel?

[JR#97]

Awesome novel stevenlindsey. you are so correct on making others feel good. I once posted an mp3 to my usual recording website hangout just for compositional ideas. the quality sucked and there were all kindsa goofs in the performance. but everybody loved it, passed it around and i think it even got used as video background music. go figure....

[knownuttin]

I am as bad as JR thinks he is. Given the choice, I'll bring in a player so I can dedicate my concentration to the job of tracking rather than being distracted by having to provide a passable performance as well. Got no assistant to yell at.
-kent