making my own drums!!!!!

[fenix]

errr...tama makes great hardware, not crazy about the shells--too thin.

errr...pearl...good maple drums...not crazy about the hardware or the fact that it's hard to custom order them.

errr...DW...very nice drums...bulky looking hardware on the toms though. Seem to be overpriced.

errr...OCDP...this is more what I want but I can't see myself spending $3000+ for a 4 piece kit.

So what do I do? I'm making my own drums dammit! I'm ordering 8 ply keller maple shells, wraps for the shells...i'm thinking a sparkle blue, tama starclassic tom air-ride system, and various hardware.

In the end, I'll have the look of an OCDP (extremely similar specs too) and it will cost only $700 without shipping. I'll have the same shells OCDP uses in my kit and my kit will cost several thousands less.

Have any of you done this before? What are some problems you had doing this yourself? thoughts?

[Prism]

Hey, you left out Ludwig, Sonor, Gretsch, Yamaha and some others. I demand a fair trial!

Isaiah

[pratt]

haven't done it myself....but have read alot about drum building and can offer the following knowledge that I've absorbed...

make sure you have the right tools - a drill press (for drilling hardware mounting holes) and a router table (for cutting bearing edges) are important - I'm sure you could get away with using a hand-held drill and router - but if I were spending all that money on shells/hardware/etc......I would do it right

if it were me - I would order the shells with bearing edges pre-cut - since this is one of the most important make-or-break qualities of a drum (GOOD bearing edges)....unless, of course, you feel completely confident in your woodworking skills...

you say it will cost only $700...but you don't take into account that you are also paying for time and craftmanship...how much is your time worth?

to sum......go for it!! at some point I am actually going to build a snare from scratch (well....from a keller shell)....please post the progress/results!

one last thing....there's some pretty good material out there in cyberspace on drum building...take the time and read-up...an educated drum builder is a better drum builder!! Also, there's an internet board on the drumset.com site that a couple of drum builders hang out on....if you have any questions post them there and I'm sure that one of 'em can help ya out

[mikeh]

I agree with pratt, make sure you order shells with the bearing edges cut (and make sure you understand the effects of different angle cuts). You can really compromise a drum sound with a poor edge. Also as pratt siad, make sure you have the right tools for the job.

For what it's worth, I know two people who ordered Keller shells and "built" thier own kits. In both cases they said it was more work than expected, it took longer than planned and the drum sound was not the magical thing they had hoped for. Both said they would not do it again.

This is not a slam on Keller shells - but the sound of a drum is the sum of many things, the number of plys, the thickness, the bearing edges, the type of hardware, etc. - there is no way to be sure of the end sound until you have the thing built.

I have much respect for those with the skills and commitment to build a drum kit and I'm sure there are many who have been very satisfied and I'm sure one can take grea pride in knowing the drum is "thier work" - however, I prefer to trust my ears, and hear an instrument before I commit to an instrument.

[elevate]

I'll chime in again with "bearing edges." I've visited the OCDP plant and talked with the people there (I made their original website). The owner said they spend as much time making sure the bearing edges are to their liking as anything else. You could have the best shells in the world, but if the bearing edges aren't clean, the drums are gonna suck.

[fenix]

yeah, i'm ordering the keller shells precut and I got all the right tools plus good ole grandpa to help if I get stuck on something. I'll post some pics when i'm done. that won't be for a couple months though.

[fenix]

hey guys...how many plies should I get? I was thinking 8, but the standard in maple seems to be 6. Is there any benefits to having 2 extra plies except raising the pitch a bit?

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by fenix
hey guys...how many plies should I get? I was thinking 8, but the standard in maple seems to be 6. Is there any benefits to having 2 extra plies except raising the pitch a bit?

Where are you ordering your shells and hardware from?

I built a kit several years ago, and I suggest that you have the shells drilled for the hardware.

Go with 8 Plies.
I have both 6 and 8 plies, and the 8 plies I think sound better.

The shells are very thin, and my kit is the best sounding set I have ever heard.
The key is having them tuned well.

I personally would not cover the set in a wrap. That's going to kill alot of the resonance.
Go with either a stained finish, or a hand rubbed polyureathane.


Tim

[fenix]

tim, can you elaborate on stains? I'm looking for a bright blue stain. do you know where I can get this? Also, after I stain, should I coat it with something?

[YamahaPaiste]

A couple more tips for you.

The fewer number of ply's the more more the shell will resonate (assuming that the ply's themselves are thin). If you don't like the Tama because there shell are too thin (starclassics) go with the 8 ply.

Applying wraps to your kit taks ALOT of work and patience...if you blow it you could have one hell of a mess on your hands.

I would go with staining your kit. Any stain will work. Some contain polyurethane in them, although I would not go this route.
You can go to any store that sells paint/stains and have them try and get the color you want. This will not be as easy as matching paint colors, but is doable.

Buy a piece of Maple board at a lumber yard and experiment with the number of stain coats. Make sure to use maple so that you will get a true sense of what the finished product will look like. Experiment with the top coat as well. A water based poly is easy to work with. I have used several caots of satin and a final 2 coats of gloss. This creates alot of depth.

Laquers are used by manufactures but are not as easy to work with as a poly. If you know someone handy with a spray gun (friend in a body shop???) this could be a way to go.

One last suggestion.......I have used tounge oil. This was hand-rubbed and really brought the beauty of the woodgrain out while also providing a layer of protection.

[fenix]

i think i've found the answer. www.woodburst.com these guys make tung oil stains in any color you want which is great because i'm considering the blue they have. Plus, it's tung oil which they use on guitars so it's gotta be good. Plus, if i don't like the stain, i can always wrap it. but I have almost no doubt the stain will look great. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Executivos]

I don't know very much about drums or building them, but with regards to the bearing edges, I think you can have ocdp do just that for you.

I have a $500 mapex kit....All of my friends have ocdp kits...one of them works at ocdp....They were telling me how they could take my drums and re-cut something...I beleive it was the inner edge of the drum where the head attaches. I can't remember how much it was, but I know it was reasonable because I could have afforded it.

good luck with the drums!

[dcptnsdcvd]

what is ocdp?
truly never heard of em. and is it some CA drum company? cuz i notice alot of you guys been there or have known someone there.

[elevate]

ocdp = Orange County Drum & Percussion

I made their website a couple years ago...I think they've since bastardized parts of it though.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by fenix
tim, can you elaborate on stains? I'm looking for a bright blue stain. do you know where I can get this? Also, after I stain, should I coat it with something?

Sorry I hadn't been back online!

You can get blue Stain (water based) from:

http://www.drummaker.com

Once you stain thge shells, you will need to put a clearcoat of some type on the drums, either lacquer or polyureathane.

Here's some pics of my kit:

http://www.geocities.com/jaxmetal/drums/drums.html

I just went with a Minwax "Wipe on" Poly finish because it was easy to do and allowed me to finish the kit at home.
If I were after a real heavy shine for the kit, I would take it to a cabinet shop, and have them shoot it.


Tim

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by Executivos
I don't know very much about drums or building them, but with regards to the bearing edges, I think you can have ocdp do just that for you.

I have a $500 mapex kit....All of my friends have ocdp kits...one of them works at ocdp....They were telling me how they could take my drums and re-cut something...I beleive it was the inner edge of the drum where the head attaches. I can't remember how much it was, but I know it was reasonable because I could have afforded it.

good luck with the drums!

No offense, but OCDP is a ripoff. It's just like DW.
One of my friends has an OCDP kit, and it's...it leaves a lot to be desired, especially for the price he paid for the kit. The "Craftsmanship" was worse than what I've seen on a Pearl Export, and I am not kidding! There were gaps between the plies when they cut the bearing edge, and where the made the 20 ply snare (They just cut a snare shell and glue it inside the other one) there is a HUGE freaking gap because the edges of the cut shell do no meet.

OCDP is just a name, and that is exactly what you pay for if you buy them.
The shells are Keller, the exact same ones that I have,. The bearing edge is a 45 degree bearing edge just like everyone else uses.
Sure, Travis Barker uses their drums, but I will assure you that his drumkit gets top priority when it comes to work....and just remember, you're not Travis Barker....which means you're not being paid to use their kits, while He is.

Tim

[Executivos]

actually i agree with you somewhat.

BUT
Of the ocdp kits i've seen, they are VERY high quality.

The drums? don't really like the sound of them. If you look at their artist list, it's pretty extensive with bands that are big right now. I don't like most of their drum sounds. Travis is an exception....his is fine. IMHO

It's like every kid in a band now has to have an ocdp kit, with a vented snare, tuned as high as possible....The guitarist has a prs and a mesa triple rect, and the bass player has a musicmann and an ampeg.

Oh well, I guess it's better than kia drums, samick guitars and "vintage peavey" amps

[fenix]

Originally posted by Tim Brown


There were gaps between the plies when they cut the bearing edge, and where the made the 20 ply snare (They just cut a snare shell and glue it inside the other one) there is a HUGE freaking gap because the edges of the cut shell do no meet.


Tim

Tim, I can't defend the gaps between plies, but I can defend the 20 ply thing. See, keller does not make higher than 10ply shell so if you want a 20ply shell you have to have 2 ten ply shells. the inner shell has a small gap cut so that it will squeeze into the other shell and it is glued in place. This is how it is done.

[Tim Brown]

Hi Fenix,

I know how the 20 ply shell is made, I've made several of them for people, but the one that OCDP made, the inner shells edges where they were cut did not meet! The seam was actually "open" (there was a gap about 1/8" wide between the two ends of the shell), and not glued together....you see what I'm saying?
There should have just been a "glue line" where the two ends met, but instead it was open....which says to me "shitty craftsmanship".


Tim

[elevate]

Another thing about OCDP is that none of the people on their artist list get paid to play OCDP, or even get free kits (except Adrian Young of No Doubt and Chad Sexton of 311 - they're part owners). Everybody else buys their kits at cost.

[Tekker]

No offense, but OCDP is a ripoff. It's just like DW.

DW a rip off?? Really? What don't you like about them (besides the price)?

I've played on a few DW kits down at Guitar Center (and at a concert that my old band opened up for a few years ago) and they are frigin' sweet (at least I thought so). Sure they are pretty spendy but I wouldn't say a rip off.

I've had my heart set on gettting one for a while, but what set(s) would you recommend instead? (and I don't want to build my own, I prefer to leave that to people who actually know what they're doing. )

-tkr

[fenix]

dw are awesome drums, but they really can't do what you can't do as far as sound goes. I believe they use keller shells which are available at several online retailers and you can get them pre-cut bearing edges 45 degrees which is what dw uses (if no reinforcement rings). This is the reason why i'm building my own drums--to cut down on price and have that same killer sound. Wish me luck.

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by Tekker

DW a rip off?? Really? What don't you like about them (besides the price)?

I've played on a few DW kits down at Guitar Center (and at a concert that my old band opened up for a few years ago) and they are frigin' sweet (at least I thought so). Sure they are pretty spendy but I wouldn't say a rip off.

I've had my heart set on gettting one for a while, but what set(s) would you recommend instead? (and I don't want to build my own, I prefer to leave that to people who actually know what they're doing. )

-tkr

They are a scam.
Think about it this way:

I can get a 16"x22" Shell with hoops for about $200.
Figure 24 Lugs at $2 each.
Spurs are another $35

Essentially, for about $300 you can build an exact copy of a DW drum.

Hell, you used to be able to buy the exact same lugs until DW pitched a hissy fit about Hayman lugs being made available to tyhe public. In case you didn't know, Camco was the company that was bought and renamed "DW", they bought their lugs from a British Drum Company called Hayman. DW tried to claim that they had the rights to the Lugs, but they didn't-because Camco never owned that design! Then DW attempted to say that only they were allowed to sell drums with round lugs.
In short, what I have heard is that they basically threatened all these small drum and drum supply companies with lawsuits which would have ruined most of them financially.


Now, The question you have to ask yourself is this:

Is it worth paying DW $1,000+ more than that because it says DW on the shell? A DW Kick can easily be $1,200-$1,400 bucks. They wanted several Thousand (As in over $3,000 for 1 Kickdrum)to build me a 28" Kick, and I said "Fuck You Too!"

DW's Shells are made EXACTLY the same as Keller. They used Keller shells for years, and any DW's bought Prior to 2000 were made with Keller Shells.

Sure, their Hardware is great, but they don't actually make that- it's made for them, but that's no big deal, because everyone else subs out their metal work as well.

I've had several DW owners ask me to make kits for them after checking out the one that I have, but I do not have the space or means to make kits anymore. (After I built my kit, I no longer had a place to do woodworking.)

The Drilling can be done for you by any of the Drum Supply houses that you purchase keller shells from, as well as having the Bearing edges cut.

You can have the shells stained and sprayed at any local Cabinet shop.

So ask yourself, why should you pay DW the $1,000+ price difference for 1 drum- when you can build a whole kit for that price difference?!?!

You're paying for the Name "Drum Worksop" when you buy their drums, not the actual drums.

What ruined it for me, was when I noticed that "Rikki Rocket" (Mr. No Talent) was an Endorser. That guy can't walk and chew gum, but they give that hack an endorsement. Come On! There were tons of other Talented drummers in the majors that were much more deserving. AT Least Tommy Lee is a badass behind the kit-even though he is one of the teo dumbest people on this planet-the other being Pam Anderson Lee. (Get the porn movie-goddamn are they dumb!"


Tim

[Tim Brown]

Originally posted by fenix
dw are awesome drums, but they really can't do what you can't do as far as sound goes. I believe they use keller shells which are available at several online retailers and you can get them pre-cut bearing edges 45 degrees which is what dw uses (if no reinforcement rings). This is the reason why i'm building my own drums--to cut down on price and have that same killer sound. Wish me luck.

You can get the exact same shell setup as DW.
You just Order a 5-Ply Shell with 3-ply Reinforcement Rings.
It will look and sound exactly like a DW, because it's what DW sold for $20 years.
They mic up really well, but the don't sound good on stage.
A friend of mine plays guitar in a band and their drummer bought a new DW kit.
As soon as Neal started playing the DW kit, the band noticed that they couldn't really hear the Kick drum. Prior to this, he was using a Pearl Export kit. They were used to this really thick THUMP that he got out of the Export Kit, but the DW didn't do this because it was a thinner shell.

THey even asked him to switch back to the export kit, because they liked it better than the DW kit-because of the thick shells on the exports, they could hear the drumkit really well on stage.
In short- He was thrown out of the band because he wouldn't do what was best for the band - which was use the Export kit.

The drums that have very thin shells with the hoops in them are more "tone-y", but they are not as "thick" sounding....It's hard to explain. They sound awesome when you are sitting behind the kit, and the close mic' really well, but they don't sound as good far away as a set that has Thick Shells....the Thick shelled drums deliver more "thud or thump" than the shells with reinforcement rings in them.


Tim

[elevate]

In short- He was thrown out of the band because he wouldn't do what was best for the band - which was use the Export kit.

It's one thing to say that DW drums are overpriced, it's another to say that Export series drums sound better than DW. I own an Export kit and have played DW kits for recordings. There's absolutely no question which kit sounds better. To kick someone out of a band because you think their old kit sounds better is kinda silly. Do drummers go around telling guitarists how to get proper tone? Oh well, no accounting for taste I suppose.