Mackie VLZ Pro pre's vs. the World

[crawdad]

Seems like we are all buying stand alone pre's to get higher quality. Lately, I have read some posts where the VLZ's surprised a few people. Have we bought into the stand alone pre hype? Are these mackie pre's every bit their equal?

I have a first generation 1202 and the pre's are decent in that board. They have gone through two generations of refinements since then, so I must assume the new VLZ design is pretty darn nice. I've been thinking about getting a new Mackie mixer and I just wondered what you all think about this.

Is there a difference between the Mackies and the DMP3 or any of these $200 or so mic preamps? Can we really hear it? Or are we getting caught up in hype that is geared to sell these stand alone boxes?

(drum roll...) Who will win? Mr. Stand Alone (rising dramatic theme) or the tried and true Mackie VLZ? (thunderous crescendo!) Stay tuned for the next episodes!

[c7sus]

I read somewhere that George Martin was quoted as saying if he had VLZ pres way back when THE BEATLES WOULD HAVE BEEN EVEN BIGGER!

I swear to God!!!!!!!

I also read somewhere else that had the VLZ pre never been invented Lenny Kravitz would be a waiter in Miami today.........

[chessrock]

Hmmm. My guess is that Lenny would have been a star no matter what. Maybe he would have been a sitcom actor like his mom (played Helen Willis on the Jeffersons) or his future wife (Lisa Bonet).

He could have been a model, too, I suppose. He just looks like a star. Okay, you can start the gay cracks now. If I were gay, I would wanna' do Lenny. I'll admit it. But at least I'm not like Buck62 who wants to run off and marry David Hasslehoff.

Now back to the subject, I would be weary of the level of marketing hype that goes on surrounding the Mackies. Mackie spends a lot of money getting people to endorse their products, so I certainly question the objectivity of some of the comments.

That said, they are very good pres. Pound for pound, they are probably the best out there for the price.

[Randy Yell]

Chess,you almost made me drop my bong,man!I mean I mighta done Lenny to get with Lisa(did you see Angelheart?)or maybe even his mom(I'm moving on up!)but I wouldn't of enjoyed doing him,man.I ain't like that!Not that there is anything wrong with it..

[TexRoadkill]

If you cant get fantastic results on a mackie you will never get them on an Avalon.

Simple is better when it comes to gain stages. If somebody cant get a good sound with just a clean pre with a pot, fader and EQ then the extra options on most pre's will just be more ways to screw it up.

For most purposes the 'sound quality' is the same but some dedicated pre's give you a lot more control over really shaping the sound. That's a good thing if you know what to do with it.

I would never buy a DMP or other cheap simple pres if I already have enough pre's on a mackie or similar quality board.

[Markd102]

Well said Tex. I agree whole-heartedly.

[mastahnke]

Well, my two cents is that I dislike the mackie pres. Not warm. That's my beef. I love Spirit/Soundcraft pres, now those are good quality pres. They put the 'u' in analogue.

Different strokes for different folks....

As a side note, didn't Lenny Cravitz use PT exclusivly on his last album, meaning there was no Mackie anywhere in sight?

MIKE

[dragnalus]

hey...how about older allen & heath pres, like on the scepter?

[heylow]

Originally posted by mastahnke

As a side note, didn't Lenny Cravitz use PT exclusivly on his last album, meaning there was no Mackie anywhere in sight?

MIKE

Hmmmm....

I dont recall anyone saying there was one on his last album....or even the one before that.

Anyway....I agree with Tex. And I also think the Mackie's are top notch for the dough. You'd have to spend a lot more to get a bit better, really. BUT there is a different between BETTER and DIFFERENT. I dig my Mackies alright but use my HHB Radius 40 for DIFFERENT. I cant say one is BETTER.

Warmer, better, etc...just words that too often around here truly only mean DIFFERENT. I'd love to hear ideas on who makes a BETTER pre, dollar for dollar than Mackie. I have albums done on a lot less than Mackie pres and I'm still trying to get THAT good....the Mackies'll do me fine for now till I can upgrade. When I say upgrade, I mean UPGRADE....Not spend a bit more on a ghost, etc. I'm talkin MCI or something.

Oh....and ,IMO, "british" and analog"(ue)" are every bit as big of marketing bullshit as everyone accuses Mackie of. EQs are EQs. Its frequencies, people, just frequencies....just knobs. Engineers, gear does not make.


heylow
expert on nothing

[area510studios]

I think the best answer to this would be ...think of preamps on mixers etc. as an effect rather than one of the first steps in recording.granted some are cleaner(less noise)then others ,i like to try different mixers mainly to achieve the "effect" i am looking for on a particular track.mostly makie wins. but 35% of the time i am finding that my event mic pre is better or my the pres on my ross 16ch mixer is superior.it may be noisier but i am able to eliminate that problem.my ross is cheaper but seems to ad something magical to the signal that mackie does'nt......just like some distrotion pedals are better for certain applications than others.anybody agree??

[crawdad]

I suppose it all depends on one's definition of "good sounding" is. I am beginning to lean more in the direction of clean and quiet as my standard. With the digital platform, there are so many ways to warm or fatten or otherwise alter a signal once its in the program. Between EQ, double tracking, tape and tube saturation effects, compression, limiting, mic modeling, etc--you can take a track just about anywhere you want if its clean to begin with.

The problem with using a pre that has a certain color of compression is that it might sound great in the early stages, but it might not fit the mix in the end. You can't really get it off once its recorded. Its like printing effects.

A good pre, for my purposes, is one that works on everything. I like what TexRoadKill said (can I just call you Tex from now on?) I'm really leaning toward getting a Mackie and just using my Meek MQ3 and Tube Mp's, etc for specialized purposes. Ah, yes! But then there is that Soundcraft stuff. I just awant to get some high quality, clean and clear pre's and forget about it for awhile!

[Wide Awake]

The problem with the Mackies is that they either take up too much rack space, or if they aren't racked you will end up with cable/spaghetti hell. I find the Mackie vlz's really "vanilla" sounding and a little bit brittle on the highs. I think they are decent but for not a lot more money you can do better.

The EQ of the channel strips I've used/owned has also been much better than the Mackies. If they improved the EQ and put the whole thing in a 1 or 2-space rack unit they would have a good product.

[chessrock]

I haven't noticed the supposed brittleness on the highs that others seem to claim the Mackies impart.

I think what is happening is a lot of people are using the monitor outs or the headphone jacks on their mackie boards. Now those DO make the highs sound kind of cheap and harsh. But when you record with the preamp alone and monitor from another source, it's a different story. Yea, they're pretty vanilla, but they are very accurate, noise-free, and do the job well.

I don't get this claim of warmth with the Soundcraft. The Soundcrafts sound fine, but I think it's really the EQ that people like on that board.

[crawdad]

I use the direct outs on my old Mackie 1202. The EQ isn't even engaged. I prefer to EQ after the fact, unless its a low cut, which I can't do with this old 1202. In fact, I've had this thing since 93 and one channel has become weak. Its only good for the pres, and I suspect that the VLZ versions are far better.

I don't think vanilla is a bad thing. Its easier to add spice than to try and get rid of it. As I said, that can be done in a lot of ways after you have your clean track recorded.

[darrin_h2000]

Id suspect that the Pres in the souncraft M series would kick the heck out of the mackies pres. With 4 for 400.00.

They are supposed to be the same as the ones in the ghost.

[c7sus]

Buck ran off and married David Hasselhof while I was gone??????

I gotta go get something nice for the happy couple..........

[Track Rat]

I believe they're registered at Guitar Center.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by darrin_h2000
Id suspect that the Pres in the souncraft M series would kick the heck out of the mackies pres. With 4 for 400.00. They are supposed to be the same as the ones in the ghost.

I talked to someone at the only authorized local Soundcraft dealer in town, and he's pretty trustworthy. He seems to think the pres in a Mackie are on par with the Soundcrafts (not a huge gap between the two), but that the Soundcrafts smoke the Mackies in every other department from EQ to summing to you name it.