korg d1600 and yamaha aw2816

[2low]

I'm upgrading my recording set up from the dark ages (I currently use a Tascam syncassette 8 track). I want to get a stand alone solution for about $2,000. The korg d1600 and the yamaha aw2816 both appear to be nice machines.

I don't want to mess with a computer based solution today but I can see the benefits that go along with it. Can either of the above machines export track by track data in a format that can be imported into computer based recording software (cubase, cakewalk, pro tools, whatever) for later manipulation?

Thanks for your help.

Bob

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Low of 2:

I use the Yamaha 2816 and it will give you great sound. It is a stand along DAW; however, in reality, it is a PC self-contained recording unit. You have a small screen and no mouse -- but I hear you can apply the mouse if desired, at least on the 4416.

About transporting data? I think the 2816, with plug-ins now available, can do what you are after. But, to be safe, consult the Yamaha site and ask a techie before you buy.

For 2k the Yamaha 2816 is an outstanding value. For instance, if you're in a hurry for some recording stuff, you can run it out the back end from the analog outs [RCA] right into tape; I use a Sony Es model dual tape deck and I get very, very good sound quality for tape -- I'd say as good as DAT and very close to CD.

As for the Korg, I don't know if it can do all that you are looking for? It took me three months to cipher out the manual for the 2816; without prior experience with several different units, I would have been up the creek; burning a CDR or CDRW is about the easiest part of the unit to understand from the manual. But, from your jargon on your post, I think you will use the 2816 with ease.

Good luck and keep those CDR's burning.

Green Hornet

[Vurt]

I can't comment on the 2816, but use a D1600 and wouldn't trade if for anything. It can do everything you mention, and is unbelievably simple to operate. The touch screen, 16 faders, and simplicity are probably the only advantages it has over the 2816, but I could be wrong. I don't think you can go wrong wither way, so it might just be a matter of deciding how much time you want to spend learning a new machine. I would imagine the A/D converters are better on the 2816, and I will say that the pres on the D1600 aren't much to write home about. At the time of purchase, I didn't think the touchscreen of the Korg was anything special, but boy oh boy, I can't imagine living without it now - it's wonderful!

have fun!

[Speeddemon]

and I like the touchscreen as much as Vurt does too. But if I had, say $2000-2500 to spend, I'd blow it on a Yamaha AW4416, not the 2816. BEcause the Yamaha has 2 screens (that 1 levelmeter screen is REALLLY useful), 4 omni outs, and all kinds of possibilites.

[Guernica]

I think that most of the decent digital recorders out there will be able to export files to your computer. I have a tascam 788, and with the upgrade (v.2) that is soon available, i will be able to export any and all tracks via the spdif digital output to my computer. ...and the tascam's only 800 bones......

[Shockwave]

I'll throw in another thumbs up for the korg. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the AW4416 does not have audio in scrub mode. That's horrid! I have heard that the operating platform is not very user friendly. I have heard all good things about the sonic capabilities though. The d1600 is very good. It's flaws are: not really open to patching in external gear, no automation on the faders, and crappy compression fx. But, the uncompressed sound, multitude of effects, touch screen, midi sync, and very easy learning curve make it an excellent choice. If anyone wishes to hear my tune just finished with the d1600, I'll post a link. Sometimes it's nice to hear what someones talking about to help make the choice.

[Speeddemon]

WHAT? AW4416 has no scrub mode? Damn, maybe my choice (Korg D16) wasn't so bad after all. I'm using the scrub rather plenty. Oh by the way, you shouldn't use the "Compressor" as compressor, but select the "Limiter" presets, to use them as a compressor, since the "Limiter" has all the parameters you'll need to make up for a decent compressor.

And remember, although no moving faders, the Korg D16 AND D1600 DO have mix-automation. 100 scenes per song! Saves panning/eq/fx/levels etc.

[Shockwave]

"And remember, although no moving faders, the Korg D16 AND D1600 DO have mix-automation. 100 scenes per song! Saves panning/eq/fx/levels etc."

Very true and very nice!!

[MoLeKuLaR]

I would go for the Yammy, dont get me wrong the Korg is cool and now is shipping with 40gb hard drives, but the thing I dont like about the Korg is that if you record 24bit it's only 8 track recording. As for audio scrubbing on the AW4416 or 2816, you could hear your music if you go into nudge (scrub) mode it's just when you view the waveform you cant hear the music. Now that really sucks ass! but that my .02 cents

[Speeddemon]

Molekular, the difference between a Korg D16 and a Yamaha is almost $1600! For the price of the AW2816, you could buy 2 Korg D16's, hook 'em up to eachother, record 16 tracks in 24bit, have 2 touchscreens and a lot of FX.

Note:
i'm assuming the Korg D16=$900, the AW2816=$1800 and the AW4416=$2500...
Ofcourse, the AW4416 has a lot of cool options (2 screens, moving faders, 4 omni outs, etc...) but that comes with a hefty price tag!

[UnclePonto]

Hi Everyone - since someone already started on the same line of questioning I wanted to go down, I will take it up. Let's talk value. Here's what I see: Yamaha AW4416 - $2500 (price is off $800 since introduction); Korg D1600 is running at about $1600 w/ the AKAI is about $1500 or so. All are 16 tracks, some have some additional features like 16 track playback in 24 bit mode and so forth... but thinking about overall value - ease of use, flexibility, scope of uses, mastering facility, built in effects, expandability, quality of sound and so forth... where is the smart money going? I'm thinking Korg - this after long considering the Yamaha. But have not heard much either way on the AKAI. Thoughts?

Thanks!
UnclePonto

[Vurt]

I went to Mars to purchase the Akai after a few weeks of comparisons between different 16 track DAWs. All the numbers and opinions seemed to edge it out over the others, if only by a hair. Well luckily they had both the Korg and Akai units set up next to each other, so I spent some time playing with them. The Akai felt like a noisy piece of shit to me, especially after I got my hands on the Korg. No contest. Night and day difference. I spent more time going back and forth between the two, thanked myself repeatedly for not being lazy and ordering the Akai online, and left with the D1600 like a kid who just got a moped for Christmas.

[darrin_h2000]

I found the Akai to be a much better machine than the Korg(Ive had a korg). more powerfull and everything but the touchscreen. And only $900.00 at the Mars. (I use an outboard Pre anyhow, but the korg I had drove me to buy the thing).

You should have had a demo on the 3.0 version, most mars stores still display the old 1.0 version which didnt have the effects and the sound was not as good.


Anyhow anything that korg can do the Akai could do better.

[Speeddemon]

Originally posted by darrin_h2000

Anyhow anything that korg can do the Akai could do better.

I doubt that the Akai will let you touch the screen 'better'...

I saw some guys pickin' up Korg D16's for $500-700 on Ebay. THAT'S A STEAL! For a 16 tracker, that can record 8 tracks, umcompressed, simultaniously!

[darrin_h2000]

You can touch the screen all you like and Ill guarantee you wont screw up and format the disk or anything like that.

By the way The Akai is 900.00 for new out of the sealed box, and miles ahead of the d16 which I could have purchased last year for 600.00 from the mars when they discontinued them.

The Korg d1600 is a great machine and all, but the effects engine is inferior to the latest version of akai dps16, I would advise you to take back the Korg and get the Akai dps16 and with the change you can get a grace 101 or a neuman mic.

[johnecat64]

Korg D1600 has reverse playback which I thought was kind of cool. I don't think any of the others do that. What about CD burning using the AKAI? It seems more difficult/expensive?

I did buy a D1600 online, but was not satisfied with the way it was packaged (thought it might be used or damaged). The second one I received actually did crap out on me, so I sent it back, too.

Now I'm back to wondering and waiting. I wonder if AKAI will come out with a unit with a built in CDR?

[Speeddemon]

Originally posted by darrin_h2000

By the way The Akai is 900.00 for new out of the sealed box, and miles ahead of the d16 which I could have purchased last year for 600.00 from the mars when they discontinued them.

Maybe in the US, but not here. The Akai will at least cost ya $1500 (without the fx) and the fx ain't all that, compared to the Korg.
And the Akai DPS16 is NOT miles ahead of the Korg D16. Its design is even 'redundant': Having 3 buttons per track for imput, mute and record, while the Korg does it with 1 button, changing color. Mute=off, play=green, imput=orange, record=red.

The only things that the Akai features, that the Korg doesn't have, is:
-having 2 aux sends instead of 1
-the ability to record in 96kHz sample rate.
-a bigger harddrive

And since I payed $900 for the Korg, whereas the Akai would still cost me $1500 now ($1700 then), I rest my case.

[darrin_h2000]

Thats 4 aux sends dude, and the d16 isnt even in the same ballpark. Did you order from Mars? they do ship internationally.


Hell compared to the Akai, The d1600 is close but not as good. and the new effects boards in the 3.0 versions have promted me to sell one of my rack effects.

[burgundyband]

.....uh....

I went with the Yamaha 4416...

Steve

[UnclePonto]

Wow. You guys are awesome. I love the passionate debate. That's how I feel about home recording equipment. You have to get it right. There are so many options. I'd love to hear some one weigh in on the Yamaha AW4416.

I was considering the CD Burner issue with the AKAI. You can certainly get a CD Burner at a decent price these days. And I'm seeing the AKAI shipping with the new effects card and, from American Musical in NJ, they are even throwing in a AKG condenser mic. Thing with that is that you can read it one of two ways: either they have extra condenser mics in stock or they need to incent people to go with the AKAI because the KORG is whipping AKAI's tail in sales. Tough call here.

Have you guys done any mastering with the AKAI and the KORG? Let me level with you: I love recording but when it comes to mixing and mastering I turn into a rage-aholic - smashing bad take CD's and tapes, cursing a blue streak, and scaring the hell out of my already skittish cat. It's drives me insane. I'm grabbing some true studio monitors for my next project which I hope will help me to get it right but still... let's hear some opinions on mixing and mastering. Thanks guys.

Uncle Ponto

[BobO]

I own the Akai DPS16 and couldn't be happier with it. Got it from MusiciansFriend.com for $1500 (with an AKG C1000s mic). Recently bought a Sony cd burner (for $125 or so) to back-up data and make .wav files, but I usually master to my Philips CDR775 Digital Audio CD Player/Burner.

I don't know how "Vurt" could say that the Akai sounded like a "noisy piece of shit." True, the features offered by all of these machines vary, but the actual sound quality of the Yamahas, Korgs and Akais is probably very, very similar. My Akai sounds crystal clear to me (I had previously owned a Boss BR-8).

P.S. I've never seen the DPS16 for $900...I just checked the Mars site, and it's not listed as being available. Perhaps the previous poster got a special deal on the last of the inventory?

[BobO]

Uncle Ponto...

One thing I forgot to mention on the cd burner issue...when I was shopping for mine, I was surprised by the lack of choices out there. The Akai has only a SCSCI connection, and most of the burners on the market now are USB or Firewire. I went to a CompUSA outlet in Manhattan and they didn't have any SCSCI burners available! The Sony I eventually found is working fine. In fact, I just gave a friend who uses Cakewalk some .wav files to dump into his computer.

There's a site somewhere that was offering the Akai packaged with a Glyph cd burner for $1500. I'm not sure if that's still available...Do a Google search for "Akai and Glyph" and perhaps you'll find it.

[UnclePonto]

BobO

Good call. I was looking at the same issue yesterdday, actually, and wondering about the compatibility of devices. The recording device makers are silent in their descripitions about compatibility - likely because they want to steer you towards their trackers - hence the Roland CDR (a cool $500, by the way) talks exclusively about using it with the VS series multitrackers. I could see how a user could get roped into spending more than they have to. How's that Philips treating you? I have a Philips stereo and it's been acting up pretty bad. I've had to have it serviced less than five months after I bought the darn thing so I am a little concerned about the quality of their products.

Ponto

[BobO]

If I had to do it over again I would NOT buy the Philips CDR775 burner. It's very, very picky when it comes to brands of disks...I've wasted a bunch of bucks buying spindles of "budget" disks which the Philips refuses to read. I've finally settled on Memorex disks...they've been working fine.

A bigger issue is that the Philips doesn't offer enough info when it comes to recording levels....just two LED meters. I've heard that the Tascam machines offer a lot more flexibility and options when it comes to "mastering."

[darrin_h2000]

That was the deal at mars. THERE IS STILL ONE AT THE KC location. I didnt need a burner because I have a whole rack of effects for mastering before I burn the cd, besides I use the one in my computer. Its better to master to the hard drive than a stand alone because of all the coasters I would tend to produce otherwise.