AKG C451b..classical recording in general

[Guardian]

Is this an electret condenser? The specs say it can operate from a minimum of 9V, so I'm inclined to think so? Also, as far as being used for a stereo pair for classical recording, does anyone have an opinion on how natural this mic sounds, especially as compared to a Neumann KM184? Was the original 451 an electret too <if the new one even is?>..Thanks )

Also, any opinions/comments/thoughts on the KM183's vs the Electrovoice QTC1's for classical mic'ing..?

-Sal

[Track Rat]

Electrets are a type of condensor mic where the back plate is permanenetly charged. The phantom power only powers the active electronics in the mic.
In my opinion, the KM-184 would be hard to beat as a stereo pair for classical recording.

[Guardian]

What about the Neumann's vs say a Schoeps CMC 5 with a cardiod capsule, like the MK 4?

[h kuhn]

Originally posted by Guardian
Is this an electret condenser? The specs say it can operate from a minimum of 9V, so I'm inclined to think so?
Also, any opinions/comments/thoughts on the KM183's vs the Electrovoice QTC1's for classical mic'ing..?

-Sal

there was a similar thread recently about the 414 being an electret. Does the spec sheet of the 451 say "externaly biased element" or something the like? Then it is *not* an electret. it is no rocket science to build a step up voltage converter that converts the 9V to whatever voltage is needed to bias the element (not necesarily 48V).

I cannot comment on any of the mics you mention, but i have the earthworks (not electrovoice, btw) SRO, the "little stepbrother" of the QTC1. Works very well on strings relatively close up, some of the string players i recorded really couldn't believe it. All Earthworks have relatively high self niose figures, so if you are into more distant micing, they might not be first choice.

There are a few more options in your price class: MBHO (haune), sennheiser mkh series, audi technica 4051, 4053 (not shure about the numbers!), Nevaton, T.H.E (oktava.com)

[Guardian]

I meant Earthworks.. I was high off caffeine last night and then I had 2 pints of Amaretto Sour <over ice> and a taste of bourbon with pepsi..so I was close enough I think )

I saw the 22db noise of the Earthworks..the Schoeps I think listed at 13.. I was just thinking in terms of comparing mics for a stereo XY classical pair, IE: QTC1's vs KM183's <or 184 if I wanted cardiod>..or the new AKG 451b's..Schoeps is from what I read the industry standard for mic'ing classical recording with just an XY setup, and they are very very flat..but the QTC1's have always been on my list of 'I want these'..but the Neumann KM series has gotten very high praise too..but they aren't as natural as the Earthworks..at least from playing with Antares Microphone modeller and switching between the 2.

--Sal

[Guardian]

The 414 is listed as Externally polarized..maybe you're thinking about the thread I started a while back about the C3000b..they list it in the specs as a 'True Condenser', which is very misleading..and they totally omit any description in the specs for the 451b, leading me to believe AKG is trying to play away the stereotype that elecret mics are bad by being sneaky or omitting information..and/or having their newer mics be electret..I know electret mics can be good..but just the fact that they will die over time makes me dislike them.

-Sal

Oh, and AKG told me that the 3000b should be fine as long as it's not dropped, in which case the charge would be 'significantly' lowered'..

[DigitMus]

The QTC-1s are a different animal than most of the other mics you're mentioning, being small diaphragm true omnis (pressure capsule - see Harvy's posts in the marathon thread). I've used them extensively for classical recording and they beat out 414s, M149s, 4050s, and a few others. If you want cardioids for XY, ORTF or other directional pairs, then Earthworks SR77s work quite well, but without the extended bass response of the omnis. HOWEVER, my new favorite classical microphone is the Royer SF-12 stereo ribbon (Blumlein pair of capsules in a single housing). With a good clean 2 channel pre-amp and a touch of EQ to correct for the inherant high end roll off above 15khz you can record a whole orchestra with one of these.

Scott

[deaconblues]

Definitely consider a ribbon, especially for bowed strings. IMHO the AKG C460/480 with CK61 beats the KM184 for naturalness with classical, and don't forget to look at the SE3000/CK91 too.

[deaconblues]

sorry, make that the SE300 preamp body, not SE3000.

[Randy Yell]

I don't think an "externally polarized" mic is an electret,they must use a step up voltage convertor like H Kuhn mentioned.One of us is confused on the lifespan of electret mics and it could very well be me.I've never read any posts about people's electret mics dying so I am a little confused about their actual lifespan.I was under the impression that if you took good care of decent mics,be they electret or externally charged,that they would provide years and years of service.Was I wrong?

[h kuhn]

Originally posted by Randy Yell
I don't think an "externally polarized" mic is an electret,they must use a step up voltage convertor like H Kuhn mentioned.One of us is confused on the lifespan of electret mics and it could very well be me.I've never read any posts about people's electret mics dying so I am a little confused about their actual lifespan.I was under the impression that if you took good care of decent mics,be they electret or externally charged,that they would provide years and years of service.Was I wrong?

I once have asked a service person from AKG, and he told me that all the c1000's (akg's oldest electret) that came in for repair so far still have about 99% of their original charge. If well build, an electret should not loose more than (if i remeber right) 3% of its charge within 30 years.

[Randy Yell]

Thanks man,that doesn't seem like enough of a loss to worry about.

[Guardian]

Just saw the review more closely that MIX did last month, and it's a backplate electret..oh well. The loss of sensitivity over the years still bothers me subconciously :P

-Sal

[AudioHipster]

Thanks.. I found this post interesting, I was wondering the same question about the original C451? some name brand companies seem to leave you guessing, the spec's leaves you in capsule wonderland, I emailed 2 companies and I am still waiting for a reply on a the micron of their capsule???
Kudos to Gefell, Heil, Superlux, and the like who expose it all about where/ what/ who/ and how.
Blumlein is wonderful on classical... also finding mid-side recording to be just the ticket, I am using a Superlux R102 ribbon and a CM-H8C for the center, to me they sound better then a pair of MK-12 small condensers or the larger 414's. Doyen www.AudioHipster.com

There’s the good the bad and the overpriced but the worst is the
overpriced junk we find flooding today’s market.
“Drink better beer brew your own.”
AudioHipster

[darrin_h2000]

IMHO...electret condencers are much better for acoustic instruments...stuff like the C214...KSM32...AT4033...etc are some of the best mics you can get.