Vocals problem

[Nate_s]

I'm having some trouble mixing vocals in on some songs that I've recorded on my PC; I'm using an SB-Live, Cakewalk, and a relatively inexpensive mic (not sure of the name right offhand). Anyway; I've managed to make the music (both MIDI and audio combined) sound good but whenever I try to add vocals, the result sounds as if two radio stations are playing at the same time, one vocal and one music; i.e., the vocals sort of ride on top of the music and don't sound like they belong IN the song. I'm not sure if this is a problem of poor equipment or simply ignorance in mixing. If anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it.

Thanks..

[Sabith]

Well..... you should just mix it together and post it in the MP3 clinic so we can hear the prob and then make some guesses... because it could be either by how you describe it.

[S8-N]

Try cutting the low end. I was kinda shocked how much low end I had to cut to get the vox to fit right. It was awhile back when I last mixed but I think I was cutting everything below around 400hz.

[six]

hey s8-n...

could you please explain that again using a language which is a bit simpler since I'm not english but I have exactly the same problem. :-)

[dobro]

He means reducing the lower frequencies of the recorded vocal - reducing everything under 400 hz.

"cut" = reduce
"low end" = lower frequencies

[Rev E]

Reducing frequencies below 400 Hz sounds very drastic to me! I would turn on the high-pass filter first cutting signals below 100 or 120 Hz first. The lower part of the voice where we have the most "power" is in the 200 Hz range. Cutting below 400 Hz would be lose a lot of good sonic information.

Rev E

[Recording Engineer]

I'll have to agree with Rev E. I tend to like to "enhance" frequcies around the 200HZ range on male vocals.

[Cliff]

One thing you might want to try if you haven't already is backing away from the mic a little more. When I first started recording I was very close to the mic like I had always done in live situations and my vocals didn't blend in at all. Then I moved back 8 to 10 inches and things improved greatly.

[GT]

I agree with Cliff.

Back away from the mic. But, this means you will be recoring more room acoustics.

What this means, is the further away you are from the mic, the better your room acoustics have to be.

In most cases deader is better.

[S8-N]

My voice is low end heavy to begin with... But I do cut everything starting with a sharp slope from the mid-mids... The last real studio I was in I noticed my vox sounding muddy and intrusive... It was the extra low end(which amplifies wind noise and other vocal anomolous sounds)...
Cut the lows and you can bring the vox up in the mix withoug stepping on the guitars...

[Recording Engineer]

Really? Do you remember what mic you were using?

I usually go with a Neumann TLM103 on bassy male vocalists because the 103's low-end is extremely tight (not the least bit muddy) and the boost starting in the high-midrange (about 3.5kHz) with it's peak from around 6.5kHz-16kHz greatly helps the vocals cut through the mix.

[GT]

Also you could try slightly of axis, this sometimes helps muddy sound.

Unfortunatlly, you will also lose some treble.

[Shailat]

Are you using any effect on the vocals like reverb? Delay?

Are you swamping it with reverb? Is the mix with any effects? Is it totaly dry?

[Professa Plum]

DUDE, i have the EXACT same problem...let me know what you finally end up doing to get it to sound right...please send me an email or something

[S8-N]

There is a theory in mixing that you want to eq each instrument so that you leave space for the other instruments...
Easier said than done..
If you listen to just the bass guitar and eq it to your liking, then do the same to the guitar and the kick drum... Then listen to them playback simultaneously... you will probably find them stepping on each other creating a muddy sound. For good seperation (and a clean sound) you should cut the freqs out of one instrument that you boost on another...
In other words if you boost the vox at 3.5 khz you should cut the guitar at 3.5 khz to clear a space for the track... Of course this might have an undesireable effect on the guitar so the key is to find a freq that you can stand to cut on the guitar and boost on vox... The same principal applies to bass guitar vs. the kick drum, etc.
Of course this is just a theory and has never worked out completely for me... But it is a good principal to keep in mind when troubleshooting a mix that doesnt quite fit together the way you want it to.

[six]

I tried some things you guys adviced since I have exactly the same problem.

Backing away from the mic, I had to see/hear, that I now had more breathing noise and such things on my record because I had to amplify my singing that much :-)
The tone of the record didn't change that much.

Cutting the low end wasn't that bad - but it just CAN'T be the way to go.
I mean: isn't a microphone thought to pick up your voice exactly as it is? when I oce was in a studio they didn't cut anything.

so what's left?
a.) my mic/amplifier sucks (wow, I'm not gonna tell you what I amplify with...) -> very possible
b.) my voice sucks... even more possible :-)

finally I thought maybe it's just because I hear my own voice. but... naaaaaa :-)))

for those who have the same problem: does your record get worse playing it lower and better playing it louder, too?
that was a really strange thing I discovered!

[six]

I now figured out that EQ-ing the whole backing track isn't a bad idea: I mixed down everything but the vocals and _enhanced_ the mids (where I thought the vocals will be). Then I put back the vocals where I always reduce the low end a _bit_. The result was the following: The vocals now don't sound that "alone & left" in the whole track any more. Ok, the track now sounds a bit notchy, but you can always re-EQ the _whole_ thing with the vocals in it... at least I guess so :-)

By the way: adding tons of reverb an delay isn't that bad too... in the beginning I used those effects very reserved (? is that the word?). The result was a voice sounding like sung in your room whereas the rest of the track sounded a bit further away and more powerful.
I think you can add quite a lot of delay and and even more reverb until you definitely hear it in a negative way in your mix.