Noisey awful EQ

[Atipp]

I have got a god awful Hum (or buzz if you so desire) somewhere in my chain. First, here's what I've got; A NADY GEQ 215, and a NADY CL-5000 Compressor/limiter. Now get this I recorded Guitars and bass straight through the EQ to the Compressor and straight into the mixer (a tascam portastudio). now the guitars came out clean, but I'm trying to get some vocals now and I get a signal to noise ratio of like 2:1 at best. I've
cut one component at a time; i.e. unplug the mike, then the cable from the EQ, then the output cable from the EQ then the compressor, etc... the noise stops between the input of the EQ and the output of the EQ. It's in the EQ right?, well Why did my guitars come out clean through the same setup. This EQ was only $99 new. did I just get crap? because it worked before. If it helps any, I run into the XLR(balanced?) input on the EQ, and out either the 1/4" or the rca (no more xlr cords to run out that output would that help though). I hope I'm just doing something wrong, and not dealing with S@#t equipment. Does anyone have any good news for me

Thanks a million
Adam T.
adtsks@citlink.net

[TexRoadkill]

There are some exceptions but a good rule of thumb is if it has the name Nady, Behringer or Peavey and it costs less than $100 it is probably gonna suck.

The bad news is- Yes that EQ is the cause of the noise.

The good news is- You shouldnt track with EQ anyway.

[Creepy]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill

The bad news is- Yes that EQ is the cause of the noise.

The good news is- You shouldnt track with EQ anyway.

1 - Maybe his EQ is plugged into a different AC circuit than the rest of the components? And if it isn't, then he could probably just lift then ground starting first with the ground on the AC, then the ground on the XLR at it's input?

2 - Why wouldn't you want to track with eq? I do it all the time and get exactly the type of sound I am after by doing so. I agree, you have to be a bit careful, but why not track a sound the way you want it to sound, if you know how you want it to sound. Especially if you are going to mix it digitally. Digital eq's don't usually sound all that great, so in that case, it might be important to get very close to the sound you want.

I remember reading a post a long time ago by John Sayers on this BBS (John has many ARIA awards for producing and engineering in Australia) where he claimed to eq while recording.

If you think about it Tex, applying the Low Cut filter on a mic is a form of eq! I really don't think one should be too worried really about eq while recording. I would agree to not overdo it. Certainly, if you are cutting and/or boosting more than 6dB then you might have the mic in the wrong spot altogether.

I am a Creep!

[Creepy]

Oh, I forgot to add that in the case of Behringer, the same boxes they sold for $200 a year ago can be bought for less than $100 today. These are the same exact boxes, like the Composer Pro and the MultiGate. So I am not sure that your idea that if it cost under $100 bucks, it is gonna suck. $100 when? is what I would ask you! If would seem that these days, you cannot really rate the usability of gear in a home studio just by their price tag.

As to the Behringer being cheap, well friend, I work around some major concert touring rigs from time to time, and I see racks and racks full of Behringer units in them. These are major audio system companies that could spend more on compressors and gates if they needed to. While I protest Behringer for some of their practices in design, you cannot say that their stuff sounds bad just because it is cheap. That is something to think about.

I am a Creep!

[TexRoadkill]

Creepy- If you want to run all your tracks through a $100 Behringer EQ be my guest

I guarantee you John Sayers does not.

[Griffinator]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
Creepy- If you want to run all your tracks through a $100 Behringer EQ be my guest

I guarantee you John Sayers does not.

Indeed. If I had access to the kind of EQ's Sayers uses when recording, I'd put them where I damned well wanted to in the chain, including while tracking

and, yes, NADY sucks big goat balls. Replace post haste. You'd do much better with a software EQ than that piece of rubbish.

[darrin_h2000]

Behringer Doesnt have any 100.00 Eq. Funny thing but thats true. they start at 350.00 but I havent used it so I cant comment on it.

Nady, I have a problem with thier rack gear and thier Mixers. Its a good idea to steer clear of any more of that gear. Now Peavy makes some good stuff but Its not cheap.

Ive always had good luck with my Behringer stuff though, Ive heard some horror stories about mixers but mine has worked perfectly for 3 years and I bought mine used.

[TexRoadkill]

My point wasn't to be a gear snob. Sometimes a cheap EQ or Comp my be just what a track needs. But if somebody is a newbie and doesnt have very experienced ears than it's usually safer to track as raw and clean as possible. Once you have more experience and truly know what sound will work in the mix then you can take some shortcuts in the tracking process to save some time.

But I would be willing to bet any EQ that is being done in the tracking process by a newbie is just "guessing" because they dont really know what sound they need in the mix.

Why limit your options when it comes time to mixdown?

[Harvey Gerst]

I've been watching this thread since it started, and nobody's answered Adam's question about his noise problem, except to say his eq sucks. If it sucks, why did it work fine on his electric guitars?

His eq is fine; that's not the problem.

Reread Adam's post, spot what he's doing wrong, and let's give him the correct answer.

Come on you guys; you know this stuff by now. The answer's obvious (if you don't assume anything - just read what he's doing - exactly).

This is one of those "well, duh." solutions. Or a "D'oh!!!" solution.

[darrin_h2000]

It does stand to reason that Hes not getting the noise from the guitar, that maybe the ground in the mic is bad.

As a matter of fact Ive heard that sometimes Paint may be the culprit and you will need to take your mic apart to scratch the paint between the shaft and the area the cord plugs in.

My personal thing I dont like about Graphic Eq is the Fact I cant find one that just cuts, They only seem to add noise when boosting frequncies, Maybe you are boosting the wrong frequencies on that eq.

I think tex is right when he says not to eq durring tracking. Because what you get on tape is what you are stuck with,and you can eq the track anytime after you get the track laid.

[rathpy]

Is Adam's problem that he is not using a microphone preamp?

From my understanding, he needs a pre to bring the signal up to line level before the EQ box, otherwise he'd have to overuse lots of noisy gain. However, if this is the problem then I can't really explain why the noise doesn't disappear when the EQ's input cable is unplugged rather than the output cable.

Regards,
rathpy

[Harvey Gerst]

Bingo, Rathpy,

You've got it. Electric guitar puts out an almost line level signal, but the mic needs a high gain input, like a mic preamp. I'm sure that Adam in an effort to get the signal even heard, has got everything cranked beyond belief. Solution: he needs a mic preamp in front of the eq.

It's amazing that he can hear any mic sound at all; he's probably got the noise level boosted about 40 to 50 dB.

[TexRoadkill]

Doh!

[darrin_h2000]

I was Kindof assumeing he had a mixer or something.

[FZfile]

......that they are easily overlooked.

I did. I got sucked in to the nady sucks thing a little bit too because one of my eq's is a geq31.
It's not great but i got it for christmas and try to make the most of it and one thing, darrin and tex, that may be a factor in atipp's choice to eq while tracking is the fact that he is recording to portastudio.
I owned a few portastudios and they do kind of force you to commit early on.
The ability to bounce wet for submixes or mix with individual control over tracks with onboard eq or aux. sends is fairly limiting.

But I found that before I had an outbord pre of any kind that when i ran my mic through my compressor and then into the eq i got a more usable sound than eq to compressor.

I had a microcompressor, which is definitely a very large piece of crap as far as compressing, but as a pseudo mic-pre and especially as a pseudo bass pre it did a good job for my portastudio recordings.

Basically, i found that while not optimal gain staging as compared to a real mic pre, that using the compressor gain to rais the mic level as oppossed to using the eq to boost, it was much better and also...
........running the eq into the compressor is kind of got both pieces of equipment fighting with each other.

its kind of like making a play dough thing that you think is very cool and stands 2 feet high and then smushing it into a 1'x1' lunchbox to bring to show and tell.
by the time you get it out of the box all the detail is smushed....

... at wich point there is no choice but to take it to the playground and light it on fire with gasoline and a flint rock while your friends take pictures with those cool markerable multi-color poloroid cameras.

Anyway, as with anything, moderation and common sense (except with play dough)

-mike

[FZfile]

.....i meant NanoCompressor

.....and actually, its a HUMONGUS piece of feces whith regards to actual, worthwhile compression.

-mike