Def Leppard - Pyromania

wes480 · #1 04-17-2002

I was watching "Ultimate Albums" last night on this record..

I'm a little confused - it said they used synth drums...did they replace them afterwards? or are synths what is on the album?

VOXVENDOR · #2 04-17-2002

The Drums are actually LinnDrum sounds... (An old Drum machine)

They were most likely played on a keyboard, and sequenced through an old sequencer....

Theres not any live drums on that album other than the Hi Hat and Cymbals...

Rick Allen doesn't play in the studio to much... Usually Pete Woodroffe or Mutt Lange just program the drums for him.....

I know he played a bit on "Hysteria"... But not much..

Even with other bands..Situations like this happen alot more than alot of people think, .... And it's cool that Rick allen doesn't have a big drummer-ego and he doesn't demand to play everything... after all.. the "Synthetic" sound is Def Leppards thang..

Any more Def Leppard recording questions.. Im the one to ask!

(There my favorite band, and Mutt's my favorite Producer)

FenderTL5 · #3 04-17-2002

Voxvendor, I've got a question:
You mentioned that Mutt is your favorite producer, have you heard his work with Shania Twain?
Do you hear any similarites between her projects and his work with Def Lep?

I do.

Ed

Vurt · #4 04-17-2002

I heard that the band liked the drums on Hysteria b/c the snare "sounds like an elephant shitting houses".

I always thought that was great!

VOXVENDOR · #5 04-17-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by FenderTL5
Voxvendor, I've got a question:
You mentioned that Mutt is your favorite producer, have you heard his work with Shania Twain?
Do you hear any similarites between her projects and his work with Def Lep?

I do.

Ed

Yes... Big Time Ed. The Beginning of "Honey im home", has a "Pour some sugar on me" feel to it.....

And there are a few other little things.... but yeah....

Mutt Lange sort of created that Def Leppard sound....

If you listen to there stuff from before Mutt, they sounded very similar to AC/DC....

So, the Def Leppard Sound is actually a Mutt Lange sound, really in essance...

Everything Mutt does seems to have that sound.. Even the song he did with Britney Spears, has sort of a Def Leapprdish feel to it..

The Cars, "Heartbeat City" album, has a Def Leppard sound to.... Especially the song "It's Magic"... That song has those Leppard Backing vocal layers...

Joe..

VOXVENDOR · #6 04-17-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Vurt
I heard that the band liked the drums on Hysteria b/c the snare "sounds like an elephant shitting houses".

I always thought that was great!

Yeah, and alot of that fat snare was fixed up in the mix... I believe Mutt's exact words to Mike Shipley (mix engineer) were... "There are all kinds of good drums sounds out there, but I want my snares to sound like Star Wars, Fuckin' huge"

Vurt · #7 04-17-2002

On a scale of 1-5

On Through The Night: 4
High N Dry: 5
Pyromania: 3
Hysteria 4.5
post hysteria: 2

VOXVENDOR · #8 04-17-2002

Here's my Ratings....Scale of 1-5

On through the night-1
High and Dry-2
Pyromania-3
Hysteria-5
Adrenalize-5
Slang-0
Euphoria-4

wes480 · #9 04-17-2002

yeah vox...listening to your tune ohh..what is it..<doh> <me thinks back hard> "in my head", thats it...definately the way you did the vocals..in the chorus...i can hear that leppard thing.

I'm more of a stripped down kinda guy personally...but I dig it.

I need to pick up Pyromania...seems like a really good album

VOXVENDOR · #10 04-17-2002

My favorite Def Leppard album is Adrenalize.....

I love the drum sounds on that album, and the album sounds so perfected....

Mutt Didn't even produce that one... He was "Executive Producer" which means basically, if there were any questions they called him up and asked him....

Pete Woodroffe does a really good Mutt Lange Job (production wise)

Mutt co-wrote alot of the songs though....

I think Mutt was busy doing Micheal Bolton's album...

VOXVENDOR · #11 04-17-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by wes480
yeah vox...listening to your tune ohh..what is it..<doh> <me thinks back hard> "in my head", thats it...definately the way you did the vocals..in the chorus...i can hear that leppard thing.

I'm more of a stripped down kinda guy personally...but I dig it.

I need to pick up Pyromania...seems like a really good album

Yeah, my producing and mixing, is definately influenced by Mutt and the Lep's

VOXVENDOR · #12 04-17-2002

He he... You can see my passion in this thread.... Someone mentions "Def Leppard" and "Recording" in the same post, and Im THERE!

wes480 · #13 04-17-2002

how much $$ you think mutt has made over the years?

between producing and songwriting...

I know he co-wrote a lot of Shanias stuff too

Do you know what we was paid for any particular projects?

Seems like he has been so busy...you think he's worth 20 million...less...50...more?

VOXVENDOR · #14 04-17-2002

Im not sure....

But Im sure he is a wealthy man just from his songwriting royalties alone....

And then the producing fee's are probably a nice chunk also...

Think of how many top ten songs. he was a co-writer of.... Probably about 20-30.... Lots, and lots of royalties...

beaverbiscuit · #15 04-17-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by VOXVENDOR
Mutt Lange sort of created that Def Leppard sound....

If you listen to there stuff from before Mutt, they sounded very similar to AC/DC....

So, the Def Leppard Sound is actually a Mutt Lange sound, really in essance...

Hey Vox, a quick question. When you say pre-DL sounded like AC/DC, which AC/DC albums are you referring to? Since he produced a bunch of them starting with *Highway to Hell*, I just wondered which ones you had in mind.

And the pre-Mutt albums by DL includes *On Through the Night*, and that's it, right?

Rock on, brutha!

VOXVENDOR · #16 04-17-2002

Yeah Mutt did do Highway, Back in black, and For those about to rock....

What I meant was, it was just a more straight forward rock sound.... Even those AC/DC albums that Mutt did were straight forward rock albums...

Mutt was young, and AC/DC were sort of seasoned so I don't think they handed him the reigns totally yet...

And yeah, "On through the night" was there "pre-Mutt" album..

beaverbiscuit · #17 04-17-2002

Okay, so you're saying that Lange's association with DL changed their sound from a straight-ahead rock style to a more involved style, with lots more in terms of production. Although I would argue that *High 'n' Dry* is still pretty much bare bones, I otherwise agree with your point.

Interesting comment on Lange's not having full rein with AC/DC's stuff. It makes sense, really — the three albums you mentioned that he produced definitely fall outside of the typical Lange "sound" or whatever. Besides, I think with a band like AC/DC there may be such a thing as too much production.

Thanks for the reply, dude.

VOXVENDOR · #18 04-17-2002

Yeah, High and Dry is still pretty stripped down, but If you listen to "Bring'n on the heartbreak", in that song were starting to hear that Mutt Lange sound coming out...

Yeah... Mutt Lange should give Def Leppard alot of Credit for letting him take over and create "the sound"... Alot of bands wouldn't allow that...

Mutt Lange's first major album was Highway to hell in 1979.... he did some stuff with his band in the 70's... they were called "City Boy"

You can actually hear a bit of those Def Leppard Vocals, in the middle of "Love, Hungry Man" during the breakdown before the end of the song on Highway to hell.... thats about the only "Mutt thang" that is really heard before Def Leppard..

Keep the questions coming.. I love this stuff..

darrin_h2000 · #19 04-17-2002

Do you ever get the Impression that Mut likes to set the mix to a particular position and leave it for each of his artists.

The def leppard stuff all seems to sound the same after Mutt Lange started to produce them. He didnt seem to change the compression setting either.

Of the shania twain stuff and the AC/DC material Ive heard everything seems to sound pretty much simmiler.

Personally By not replacing Rick Allen after the tragedy the drumming went downhill, at least we know what a hard rock band could sound like with synthisized drums.

VOXVENDOR · #20 04-17-2002

Quote:

Originally posted by darrin_h2000
Do you ever get the Impression that Mut likes to set the mix to a particular position and leave it for each of his artists.

The def leppard stuff all seems to sound the same after Mutt Lange started to produce them. He didnt seem to change the compression setting either.

Of the shania twain stuff and the AC/DC material Ive heard everything seems to sound pretty much simmiler.

Personally By not replacing Rick Allen after the tragedy the drumming went downhill, at least we know what a hard rock band could sound like with synthisized drums.

Darrin..

Mutt Doesn't Mix... So Im not sure about the mix settings, but there is definately a sound that runs through all his work.

Rick didn't play on Pyromania either, so im not sure what you mean about not replacing him after the "tragedy"... Pyromania came out before he had his accident and he didn't play on it... Thats just their way of doing things..

chessrock · #21 04-17-2002

I think it's interesting that Mutt supposedly had such a heavy hand in the "crafting of DL's sound," yet what really made them stand out at the time, if I remember correctly, is the fact that DL sounded that way live. Listening to the live was just like listening to the record.

Do you know if Mutt had a hand in selecting/briefing their touring sound engineers? Or do you think it's just a situation where DL just hooked up with good sound guys and said: "Alright, make us sound exactly the way Mutt does." ?

VOXVENDOR · #22 04-17-2002

Well, right away... guitars aren't too much a big deal live... Pretty simple... and the fact that the drums were all electronic and only 2 mics were needed for the cymbals, made the drum sound pretty easy...

So, I don't think they were a hard band to produce live....

The one thing that can't be produced very closely live is the Backing vocals....

Def Leppard does them live, without any backing tracks and I think thats a downfall... I think it would sound so much better with Mutt singing all the layers on a backing tape or something...

I saw Shania Live and she had all the backing vocals on tape.... Well you saw her band singing, but funny how it was Mutt Lange's voice coming out of the speakers...

It really made a nice tight sounding well produced concert....

As for Mutt doing live... I don't think he ever did with Def Leppard, but I know he helped set the automation up on the board for Shania's show, and other sound aspects of her show..

gjb3 · #23 04-17-2002

I am a moderate DL fan and didn't know the extent they used synth drums on Pyromania...kind or surprised, actually. Did Rick Allen play on "High and Dry"? "On through the Night"?

I'm interested...was this a common practice in the hard rock world at that time? If not, why did Mutt do it? I don't think of it as a slam on Rick Allen, since they could have just used a session drummer if they were unhappy with his abilities. Seems like this was just Mutt's deal - is that the case?

-J

VOXVENDOR · #24 04-17-2002

Yeah... Im not sure about those early albums.. I don't really listen to them, nor have I done much research on the recording of them...

The reason Rock bands were using Drum machines for drums back then (and still do) is because no matter how you tune a snare, it's still a snare....

Listen to the snares on a Poison song, or a Skid Row song, or One of them others, and it sound's nothing like a real snare that your sitting in front of and hitting with a stick..

They sound Huuuuuuge... And a sequencer has perfected timing...So, It's pretty much that combo with made Rock producers love Drum machines....

It wasn't a slight against Rick... In fact Rick is a great drummer and always has been... But they wanted that perfectly timed, and perfectly sounding huge hit exactly the same every time...

Listen to "Photogragh"... Just after the first chorus, before the second verse starts theres that drum lick....

Show me a drummer that can make it sound that perfect on a REAL kit....and show me a real kit that has toms that sound that big..

Even with Neil Peart or one of the other big drummers, there is always a varience.... a human feel..... That Def Leppard Lick sounds perfect, like a robot...

And that is part of the Def Leppard sound..

I get some garage bands in my studio once in a while and i try to explain to them that I can make there stuff sound so much better with samples... and the drummer can do the cymbals and the hi hats live.... Just leave the bass and snare and toms to me...

But..... nooooo, they always want to have a part in it and thats fine, but as you know, most garage bands aren't exactly tight, and great drummers with metranome timing are hard to come by in the garage band world....

Which is why, the band usually walks out with a typical garage band-sounding Cd..

My drums are all done with the sampled bass and snare and then live cymbals and hi hat.....

Vurt · #25 04-17-2002

Vox, this might be something I could get into for the fun of it. Would you mind going into some detail about sequencers and the like. Basically, how the hell do you do it?