Tom Tom's

[poo]

My tom's sound like shit. I need some tips, more along the lines of tuning and skins and stuff...my mic technique isnt really the problem i dont think.

:-) Shitty Drums = Shitty Drum Track

[matty_boy]

I realize that it is hard, but it may help if you can tell us how they sound shitty. Try to describe the sound that they make when you hit 'em.

Matty

[elevate]

Tired old drum heads (top and bottom) are also possible culprits for shitty drum sound.

[poo]

hmm...well it'll be easier to describe if I compare them to a sound that I think I "should" be acheiving. First of all, no sustain. Thud. Thud. Second, It almost sounds as if i'm gettin bad overtones (like when you play C with a C#) Like two frequncies are fighting to dominate eacother! I get alot of attack though, but that don't matter to me right now! They are Clear Evans drum heads.
They haven't been tuned in ages.....

hope that helps!

[dogmatic]

Does not matter what kinda kit you have (within reason) you can make it sound good. It might be that you are useing the wrong heads. there are lots of diff heads to try but that would be expensive. My personal preferance is Remos - pinstripes for all exept snar - ambasabor coated for the snare.

secondly If they are old (like elevate said) heads they will never get a good sound like a new head. no mater who you are. There is one thing you could try that I have done before that works. If the head is old and streched crank your oven up a couple hundred degrees like 180'C (dont know in F) when it is hot pop the head (only the head) into the oven (being careful not to touch the plastic on any hot metal). this normaly tightens the head a bit if you dont wanna buy new ones and just want that extra mile. you just put it in for like 10 seconds, or till you think it is done. genraly dont go more that like 15 sec.

also try useing a different weight stick of a nylon bead instead of wood (visa versa), lastly it could be the room which is diff to fix but can be done.

Dont know if this made sense to you if if it is correct but it works for me.



Dogmatic

[neirbo]

Check out this link. Everything you need to know about tuning drums:

http://www.drumweb.com/profsound.shtml

[pratt]

Originally posted by poo
They haven't been tuned in ages.....

typically not tuning your drums for ages leads to a $hit sound....

seriously, though - use the link above to Professor Sound's Drum Tuning Bible - make sure that you buy some fresh new heads and start from scratch...the tuning method probably won't work too well for old, stretched, worn-out heads.

my drums have sounded amazing ever since I've started using the tuning method....just realize that you need to re-tune or 'tweak' the tuning quite a bit (especially if you play alot and/or hit hard)....just like guitar strings, etc. - the drum heads stretch and will go out of tune....and since it's so important to get the top&bottom heads resonating together - any variation from the tuning at which this occurrs will result in more thud and less resonance....

[Markd102]

Tuning is everything bro. If your skins don't "sing" accoustically, you can't expect them to mic well. It really is worth taking the extra time to get the drums sounding nice.

Mark

[poo]

What do you guys think of those "clip on" tom mics? wouldnt they be better, for isolation and stufff...instead of having a bunch of large 57's hanging all over the place?

[dogmatic]

You hit those little clip on mics once and they are history. atleast a 57 can take a few shots

[poo]

Good point! But what happens if the drummer is good and aims well? Is it worth it? Or should I just not bother? Once I start adding tom mics to my drumix I get scared! Im afraid of more open mics on the kit..it bothers me...But i CANT getthat TOM TOM sound with just overheads...

[postalblue]

they're ok. about as good or better than an sm 57.
i use sennheiser e604's on rack toms and floor tom. they sound great with a little eq. if you have the luxury of recording each tom to a separate track (or at least as a stereo pair), you can edit the leak out or use a gate AFTER you've recorded. don't gate the toms when you're tracking.

[postalblue]

btw, they can withstand a lot of beating. all of mine have been hit more than a few times, and are still working perfectly. you can also use the atpro25 on floor tom, and also on toms. it's the cheapest drum mic around.

[fenix]

Originally posted by poo
What do you guys think of those "clip on" tom mics? wouldnt they be better, for isolation and stufff...instead of having a bunch of large 57's hanging all over the place?

absolutely not. A mic on a stand will give better isolation anyday than a strap-on.

Try remo coated ambassadors on the batter side. These are single ply (more resonance and sustain) and are favorited in recording by many engineers. Almost a standard. I use evans resonant on the bottoms. They made my shitty mapex sound really freakin good.

[neirbo]

Originally posted by fenix


absolutely not. A mic on a stand will give better isolation anyday than a strap-on.

Fenix, I don't get this. If you close mic a tom, it doesn't really matter much how you hold it in place. A clip on can in theory restrict the tom from resonating a little, but that won't affect isolation.

I use the 604s, and like them better on toms than the 57s. The sound has more high end, almost condensor-like, which I like. I rarely use the clips though, since I find the mics will stick too far out into the middle of the drum, especially on small toms. I will usually mount them to a mic stand, giving me better flexibility in how I place them.

I bet the little rim-mount clips with the bendable gooseneck would work great for the 604 if you wanted a cheaper option than buying a bundh of stands. They are too flimsy for a heavier mic like the 57, but the 604 is very light.

For drumheads, if you have decent kit and tune well, a single ply Evans G2 will sound great. Coated will give you less stustain, a little dryer sound. Clear is more resonanat and bright. If your kit is not so great, it might be hard to get it or keep it in tune. Then you might try a Remo Powerstroke. They have built in dampening that kills some overtones (that's where bad tuning really is noticed). You won't have as much flexibility in what sound you get besides the pitch, but it's a nice one-tone wonder. Especially good for heavier styles of drumming for that "power tom" sound

[Track Rat]

I bet the little rim-mount clips with the bendable gooseneck would work great for the 604 if you wanted a cheaper option than buying a bundh of stands. They are too flimsy for a heavier mic like the 57, but the 604 is very light

I have a few of the clip ons and I NEVER use them for recording. The drums end up driving the mics thru sympathetic resonence transfered thru the clip ons. I found this out the hard way. A real mic boom stand is the only way to go IMHO. YMMV.

[fenix]

a mic on a stand will give you the sound of the drum. a clip-on will give you the sound of the drum plus vibrations of the drum. It's even worse if you have your toms mounted on the bass drum (which is the most retarded idea ever yet drum companies still do it) because every time you hit the kick, those vibrations travel up the hardware straight into the tom mic. Now this doesn't make that much difference live, but in the studio clip-ons are garbage.

bottom line: those clip-ons are designed for live use.

[neirbo]

Originally posted by fenix
a clip-on will give you the sound of the drum plus vibrations of the drum.

Gotcha, I was not thinking of that kind of isolation, but isolating the sounds of each drum. I always use stands myself, so hadn't considered vibrating the mic. Still, I find the 603s themselves sound great for recording. Just because they CAN be clipped on doesn't mean they MUST be clipped on.

[Prizmaxic]

I believe in tuning the top and the bottom head to the same pitch to reduce unwanted overtones. Also Rim Mounts are a must, they let the drums sing.

[fenix]

Originally posted by neirbo


Gotcha, I was not thinking of that kind of isolation, but isolating the sounds of each drum. I always use stands myself, so hadn't considered vibrating the mic. Still, I find the 603s themselves sound great for recording. Just because they CAN be clipped on doesn't mean they MUST be clipped on.

very true. I haven't gotten a chance to work with the 603's in the studio, but I have had much experience live with them, and they work great on toms but the design of those clips that come with them get on my nerves.