panning overheads

[UncleHerb]

do you guys pan your overhead drum mics hard left and right? when i do this it sounds unnatural and cymbals and hihat are too "stereo" ... should i be panning them less hard? or maybe this is a phase issue ? i never had this problem with my old drum machine but live drums are a diffrent animal

[mixsit]

You should go with what sounds good. What position are the overheads?
I go with a pair of earthworks omnis near the drumers shoulders, and used to use xy over the kit. In both cases I would pan anywhere from full pan to 10-2, depending on how much spread sounded good. About 9-3 gets used the most often for me.
Wayne

[shackrock]

in my case i just stick with the 2 overheads at the same hieght levels...and do it where it looks good to start. space them as evenly as possible, as middle as possible, etc.

then i listen and rearrange as neccasarry (not enough right whcih in my case is way to the right of the set, so i simply move it over). then i USALLY pan hard right/left. (highhat side left, floor time side righit). really i think just experimenting is the best way to find out. record a ton of diferent ways, then listen to them over the next day or 2 and pick your favorite.

[Shailat]

They might sound too "Stereo" depending on taste, arrangment (spares or full), how much bleeding you have in other tracks.
There might be a phase problem. You'll have to move them closer if the phase is overwhelming.

There is no problem with panning them less hard. It's a matter of taste

[Sonixx]

Originally posted by UncleHerb
do you guys pan your overhead drum mics hard left and right? when i do this it sounds unnatural and cymbals and hihat are too "stereo" ... should i be panning them less hard? or maybe this is a phase issue ? i never had this problem with my old drum machine but live drums are a diffrent animal

how far apart are your mics?...bring them closer together...

[fenix]

I've always panned according to how close my overheads are to each other. If they are close, I usually hard pan...and they don't sound too stereo b/c they are close. If they are far away, i'll do the 9o'clock 3o'clock thing.

[UncleHerb]

im using 2 mxl 603s aimed straight down 3 feet apart and 2 feet 2 inches over top of the cymbals so maybe thats too far apart... are they too low as well?

thanks for all the advice i look forward to trying out some of your suggestions

[Sonixx]

i like the imaging using a mic bar which places the mics about 6 inches apart. if placed over the drummers head i point the mic that's closest to the floor tom at the hi-hat and the other at the floor tom (almost like a Coincident Mic Pair but not as angled). point the mics straight down at the kit (mormally mic body is parallel with the floor), then angle them about 15° towards each other.

[mixsit]

<im using 2 mxl 603s aimed straight down 3 feet apart and 2 feet 2 inches over top of the cymbals so maybe thats too far apart... are they too low as well? >

I find this boils down to finding a drum kit image that wants to pull me in two directions at once; wide enough to sound fairly spread out on the top end (useually not going for the 180' tom rolls), but narrow enough to set the kit 'back' width wise to control the distance aspect, and/or at least not have the hat too far left (or right).
So part of the question is, what roll do the o/h's play in your setup? Are they the primary kit mics or mainly to get the cymbals?
As you get closer to 'xy' it gets less phasey and more coherent (part of your 'too stereo' effect?), but mic distance still controls width (initally, befor panning). 'Cymbal' mics can also be pulled back or out to hide the hat a bit.
Most of my experience is with two mics getting the whole kit (except for kick and snare mics). I would think you might want to pull them up and to the front a bit if ther're for the cymbals, or tighter and maybe back if ther're the 'kit'.
Wayne

[mixsit]

Sonixx, that sounds like an interesting way to go, with a bit of spread on the mics, but at a narrow angle.
Do you also add tom mics? I ended up going lower and from behind to get me closer to the drums, but I'm also needing to get some isolation, as I'm not in a dedicated drum room.
Wayne

[Sonixx]

yea...i use tom mics (one per tom), but i mix them in sparingly.

i usually mic with this setup:

1 kick
1 snare
1 per tom (3 for my kit)
1 hi-hat
1 ride cymbal (if i have to choose between the hi-hat and ride i choose to mic the ride)
2 overheads

[Downside Studio]

the long lived discussion, how should I pan the drums? From listeners point of view or drummers point of view.

I personally do the first, but a very very stoned person convinced me the other can be correct aswell.

Whenever I'm really stoned, I put on a record and start drumming my little airdrums. It keeps confusing me if I have to do it mirrored'

Who can argue with this?

[chessrock]

Dude, you need to check in to rehab.

[FenderTL5]

Just a question for clarification:

"..pair of earthworks omnis near the drumers shoulders, and used to use xy over the kit.."

If you place 2 omnis in an XY pattern, aren't you recording in mono? The polar patterns would overlap so that panning would produce essentially nothing. It is my understanding (& experience) for the XY configuration to be effective in recording stereo, the mics must be directional.

[mixsit]

Yes, the xy was with card's. Although some omnis are directional enough in the highs to be pointed- read that somewhere, probably with large diaphrams, using them instead of cardioids.
Wayne

[darrin_h2000]

Interesting thing to consider is when you are going with hard rock with alot of ambitious drum work, panning form the drummers point of view is a great idea. Sometimes Ill even find myself "air drumming" when stuff is setup in this fashion.

But for Jazz and blues where I consider drums to be more for time keeping audiance point of view works ok for that. "air guitar" is a little more dominant for this listening.

[darnold]

Well, just from my experience. I noticed from previous drum recordings that i tend to not have enough stereo spread on the overheads when i get them on a homestereo or car stereo. Then when i listen to "professional" mixes the overheads usually sound pretty extreme in the stereo spread. However, im not really sure about this, and im going to be doing some experimenting with this this coming saturday. But this is what i feel, i think the stereo field should be as spread apart as you can get it with the overheads, as long as it is not deductive to the sound quality or have other problems associative. This will give much more distinct seperation within the individual drums. But thats all a matter of taste also.

I recommend recording some other stuff in the mix, like bass and guitar, and do a decent mix, then expirement and see how it sounds when you get it on a home stereo and stuff.

Darnold

[ChuckU]

I'm using omni's (the legendary ECM-8000's, and since so many on this BBS use them I thought I'd chime in). I have them panned hard right and left. Placement as follows:
Six feet apart from each other pointed at the floor. 18-24" from top of cymbals.
Even with the hard pan, the sonic separation is not exagerrated, but rather "real."