music morals and business....confused producer

[silksmoov]

i don't know if this fits into the "newbie" category, but i figured more people would see it here than anywhere else, and i would like to have different types of responses.

my thing is this, i'm trying to start a recording business with a few associates/friends of mine. typical thing to do nowadays with low prices of gear and everything right?

well the problem lies with the business side of things. see, everyone in the group likes to make music. that's the easy part. the issue here is how far will you go to make the music (and the money) for the business. i'm willing to do whatever it takes to make the money, at least until i can live a little more comfortable than i am now. i don't have to be rich or a superstar. i just want to make back my investment, and be able to keep my head above water. (okay, well maybe a little more than that, but you get the point.)

another guy in this group says that he "WILL NOT" break his morals and standards just to make money for the business. meaning, if someone came to him and said they would give him $10,000 to do a track for a song about killing your mama, he would not do it. he said the money isn't important to him, and he would be just as happy poor and making tracks here and there that fit into his "standards and morals"

i'm having a hard time separating the two. (music/business) even thought the have to co-exist.

so am i wrong for wanting to push business forward and do what it takes to make the bucks to live a little better life than i am. i mean, i love.....wait a minute.....I LOVE MUSIC....and i'll be doing it to the day i die, regardless if i make a buck. BUT, does that mean i'm a bad person with no morals and standards if i want to go out there and get the dollars that someone else won't????

i know this is long and drawn out, but i really need some input from the people on this site. you've really helped me thus far in my short music career, and i know there are folks out there who understand what i'm talking bout.....help????

[HogansHiro]

Gee, no one can actually tell you where your business morality should lie. Only you know. Usually businesses is just that, business. I understand not wanting to compromise morals and all that jazz, But, hey, even I would sleep with Robert Redford for a million dollars and I am far from gay.

I guarantee not many producers condone the killing of cops. But quite a few have produced songs with similar content. I'm sure their morals were belayed when they recvd their big fat paycheck.

The way I look at my recording business is this. If I don't record them someone else will. I might not agree with what they're saying, but I am hired to make them sound good. You and your partners are gonna have to come up with a system of dealing with morality problems before they affect future business.

Just a thought....All it takes is one bad word of mouth how a specific recording studio is prejudice against a certain type of music and you'll have a hell of a time ever getting any type of music in there.

I'm sure others disagree....there is no absolute answer.......sorry.

[This message has been edited by HogansHiro (edited 02-11-2000).]

[Steve Tittle]

Just a very humble opinion.

You have to do what is in you heart to do. If you don't have a problem with a certain project set to make back your money go for it! You and only you can be the judge.

I have never been able to bring myself to play certain kinds of music regardless of the money and everyone is different when it comes to this.

If it comes down to it, and your friends are having problems with the type of music, better to have friends in the end than struggle and end up without them. It's tough for friends to also be business partners.

[Eddie N]

friends should never enter business with each other because its too difficult to sever ties when things dont work out...(which it usually doesnt among friends)

there are exceptions.. when everyone wants to produce there is gonna be a conflict.. but when one is an accountant, one produces ,one is a lawyer , etc sometimes things work out..

when it comes to business..your morals sometimes need to take a backseat ... thats what it takes to make money.. in order for a business to succeed among partners , everyone must want to accomplish the same goal..it sounds like your friend and you dont have the same goal ( make a lil coin ) , and thats no good.. so you need to make a choice..

ps.. music and business rarely coexists.. most record labels are in it for the money, and will do what it takes to make that money.. if a song about killing your mother has platinum potential , they will sign, promote, and distribute that artist records to the fullest extent to make money..


- eddie -

[Fishmed]

One word, "Reputation"

If you are going to have your own recoed label, then you have to think about your reputation. If you promote violence and drugs in your products then you may miss out on other talent, people who do not want to be associated with those kinds of things. Another thing, if you start to promote those kind of lyrics then more musicians that use similar lyrics will be attracted to your business. In the end, you reap what you sow.

Now with even just a recording studio the morals of your business will affect the atomosphere of your studio. You may not notice it, but your clients will when they get there. The key to a successful busines is not just making a buck, but to have repeat busines through customer satisfaction. If clients are not happy in the environment they are recording in then they may not perform as well as they can, then their end products will suffer.

It is up to you and your partners to AGREE on the foundation of the business: morals, mission statement, etc. If everyone is not sold into what the business stands for, it will be hard to sell your service to others.

[This message has been edited by Fishmed (edited 02-12-2000).]

[Buck62]

First of all, this is no way to start a business.... with controversy.
I mean, the situation you're talking about may never arise.... so why are you arguing over something that might never happen?
You also might get over-run by another studio or record label. You might fall out of bed and break your neck (God forbid), or you might get abducted by aliens.
You can sit around "What If-fing?" things to death, doing that will only make you tentative and stagnant. That's no way to start off a business.
All businesses with co-ownership are going to have thier problems. Deal with them as they come.
The music business is a cut-throat, "survival of the fittest" type venture. So, get your a$$ in gear and just do it if your gonna do it.
Or... as the saying goes... "If you can't run with the BIG DOGS, stay on the porch.

[This message has been edited by Buck62 (edited 02-12-2000).]

[skweeks]

i don't own a studio or anything, just record some friends and stuff but here's my take on it if it matter:

if the guy is against certain kinds or music (ie, he is a classic rock fan, but won't record a jazz albumn, or a punk albumn) then unless you have some reeeeeally good reason to attract all the bands of his one style, you probably won't have much business

on the morals side, it's not necessarily a black and white issue... if the guy won't record a stupid punk band's song about drinking and getting laid (or something on that line) then his morals may present a big problem in your business... however, if what you mean is that he is gunna refuse to do white pride albumns (and the like, meaning totally "sociably unacceptable" messages) then i don't think that should hurt your business too much...

as i said, i don't own or work at a studio so i guess this carries little weight, but whatevs, good luck

[Even]

In my opinion you are looking at two very seperate areas with this post. One as an artist, and one as a business venture. As an artist you should be free 100% to play what you want as you want (boo to censorship) and the issue of what is or is not acceptable as creative liberty is a discussion between you and your musical partners. Bands face creative discrepancies...fact. This is why we do or do not work well as a band with the members we choose.
As a lable or business... whole different can of worms. If you are in the game to record for people or simply record them and their art, then you are commited to do just that. Example: I hate rap. But if I am solicited to record a rapper, I hit record. The Recording crew does not need to like or enjoy the music they record for others. When a band sits with me and says we want more bass, they get it, even if I think it is lame. Sure I may make suggestions, but that is as an engineer. Never do I have the right to say that their moral issue is better or worse than mine. If you strat screening the boys at the door based on the things you feel is right, then you have sold out to the passion of the individuals art and expression. So again, the only words and expressions that you truely have the right to open or close are your own. This of course is simply my personal perspective.

[PannyDeters]

Frank Zappa had a song called "My guitar wants to kill your mama."

I wonder if the guy'd take 10k to record that. I mean, no HUMAN is doing the killing, right? Just a guitar. I wonder what kind of guitar it was? I hear that fenders aren't good to hit people in the head with cause they break easy. And acoustics are out of the question. I'd forget anything that has the words "hollow" or "Semi-hollow" in them. And I'd also forget those "tone chamber" guitars. I read from some guitar magazine that Les Pauls are good to hit people in the head with, cause they are so solid.

But ya know what? I bet it was an 1980's model BC Rich. Those things were pretty spikey looking. I bet one of those could kill MY mama. Frank never tried to though. Rather, his guitar never did. Not to the best of my knowledge.

I have to go to my mom's house today to have her fill out some forms so I can get some more free government money (we's po') to go to college. I'm taking a guitar class there. SO far I learned the Harmonic Minor scale and the C-C#O-Dm chord progression. He never talks about guitars killing mamas. My teacher that is. Is last name is "Record" swear to god.

Anyway, maybe I'll ask my mom if Frank Zappa's guitar ever tried to kill her.

Whoa Shit!!! Now that I remember, Frank also says that his guitar wants to burn your dad!!! Well I know that Franks' guitar never tried to BUrn my dad. He woulda told me.

He has morals.

[drstawl]

"Forget about the brotherly and otherly love.
Motherly love is just the thing for you.
You know your mother's gonna love you till you don't know what to do"

[Schmoe]

Look back in time, I think you will answer your own questions. Did Elvis worry about morals when all kids' parents were throwing his albums away because it was "devil music?" NOT!!! Seriously, there is art and then business. You think some of the artist that made naked paintings worried about this crap? No, they are expressing themselves. Same with music, we are artist. Your bud has got to understand that. I agree with all of the above on the part that friendship and business just don't mix. Face it, you wouldn't marry your best friend, now would you? A business is like a marriage. Better get along or it's divorceville. IF you don't record it, someone else will.
No matter what you think, do what makes you HAPPY. I mean, that's why we do this, right? We enjoy the hell out of it.
WORD....

[tonyA]

First, be aware that business partnerships with friends could ruin friendship.

Second, I am not sure where you get the idea that low morals and making money in the music industry go hand in hand. It is not like one just have to record obscene songs as a sure-fire way making money like selling hot cakes. It is just like driving, you could drive nice or drive like a bozo, it is up to you.

Third, getting you investment back within the shortest possible time is always the goal of anyone in business, you are not alone, but opening up a recording studio is not like opening up a Deli store. Chances are you would be poor for a while or until you get some advertising agencies, bands, etc. to know you. But chances for making millions is closer to a recording studio than a Deli.

Fourth, but not least, you have to love making music and recording to really to it. If not, my advice is to start small where investment would not hurt that much in case you change your mind.

Just my 2 cents.

[gibs]

Rock on drstawl and Zappa....if yer bud could make 10K on song that's offensive to his sensibilities, then he could jolly well take his part of the money and give part of it to a charity or something if it gripes his ass so much.....he seems just a tad close to being a wannabe censor, not necessarily a moralist......gibs

[Rick Stevens]

Well said Schmoe, I agree with you, do what makes you happy, if other people don't like it tell them to f*&k off!

[CMiller]

I hope you guys didn't invest any money yet because it sounds like you have a huge difference in business philosophy.

This is a way bigger problem than going into business with your friends. If you can't come to an agreement as to the direction of your company, well...I really hope you haven't spent any money yet.

I also find it interesting that the sentiment of the replies seems to be that studios have an moral obligation to record everything that comes their way. They do not. Not wanting to associate your business with certain viewpoints is a perfectly valid stance. It takes a lot of courage not to take the easy buck, good for your friend. I think the implementation of his plan is a little impractical. Is he going to proof-read lyrics during pre-production meetings? That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with your view either. Someone out there is going to take their money and it might as well be you.

It's interesting to me that some of the posts on here have given the ok for you to follow your happiness but your buddy hasn't been granted the same. He is entitled to follow his own path too.

In short, I really hope you haven't spent any money yet, you guys have a lot more serious work to do than looking in catalogs at cool equipment. Before you do anything, get this ironed out...if you don't, it'll be the easiest way you ever lost money.

[silksmoov]

.