Pop screen overrated??

[Shockwave]

I've always used a pop screen when recording a serious vocal track. I never thought twice about it, until yesterday. I bought a ShureKSM 27 and I know it's not the end all, but for me it is a big leap up from my old Peavy 457b (I like this mic still too). I was just screwing around with positioning and such- whole new world of clarity with a condenser- and then I just folded down the pop screen as a lark and BAAMM, crystal clear like I couldn't imagine! I have a typical store bought wind screen, but I must say, these things really filter out some otherwise beautiful frequencies. I tried to place the wind screen further away from the mic and add some careful eq but nothing re-produced the beautiful sound I got without the screen. I have always been concious about my singing technique while recording to avoid pops and harsh esses and such and it seems to come natural after so many years - sometimes unavoidable I realize though- but I figured for that kind of clarity it's worth a shot. Worked very well with nothing to fix in the mix and wow, the clarity is awesome. So now I think twice about that pop screen, for myself anyway. For other folks I record though (in fact most) the pop screen is a must. Anyone else have this experience?

[tim_oreilly]

I'll qualify my response with the caveat that I have very little experience. That being the case...

I totally agree. I greatly prefer the sound I get without the foam windscreen. One way to avoid plosives is via mic placement - I've read about (and had success with) setting the mic up so that the bottom of the diaphragm is at about nose-level. I prefer the sound I get that way than by using the foam.

Tim

[Shockwave]

I want to further clarify that I'm using a pop screen, not a wind screen as I mistakingly wrote in my post. The kind you attach to the mic stand. I only use a wind screen at a gig if it's really windy and even then I hate them! I've screwed up too many posts tonight so I'll sign off for now! See ya Tim...

[Lopp]

That reminds me that our soundman used windscreens to keep us from eating the mics. Man I hated them because they soaked up all my spit and felt icky against my lips.

[Tonewoods]

"Man I hated them because they soaked up all my spit"...

Exactly...they protect the diaphram on a high-dollar condenser as much as help to eliminate the P's and B's....

Bruce
www.bruceharvie.com

[philboyd studge]

Hmmm, it's got me thinking. I've always used a pop screen when recording my vocals with a condenser, but with all those stage years singing into a 57, I could probably work around it. I'll give it a shot this coming week.

[PowerCouple]

They sure "erase" from the equation some high freqs, but avoiding hissing and popping is not the only function of a Popper-Stopper.

It avoids your spittings from getting into the mic, what may cause damage to the capsule. I am not saying that you spit like an old drunk punk rocker, just that is unavoidable to exhale vapours. (wet) that can stick to the thin membrane and gradually ruin it.

It's the same reason why you should keep them away from humidity.

Peace...

PC

[postalblue]

i guess you can live with having to replace a mic every two years or so (i don't how often you'd have to replace the capsule after it getting moist) now that decent large condensers are so cheap.
i think it's a fair enough price to pay for the best sound, at least for those recording only their own music.

[knownuttin]

I'm moving to Cali to protect my mics from humidity!
-kent

[PowerCouple]

Yeah good idea!

But I was not joking though!

Maybe you can put them in your microwave to dry them a bit!

Peace...

PC

[PowerCouple]

Postalblue, you are entirely right, but hey... I am a low low low budget guy...

Peace...

PC

[postalblue]

Maybe you can put them in your microwave to dry them a bit!

and use them while the're hot to get a warmer sound. keep a good distance to avoid burning your stache though.

i'm a big cheapstake, but i'll do whatever it takes to get my music sounding right. but if i'm recording somebody else, i'll definitely use the pop filter.

[Lopp]

Uhh. I said "soundman" and "windscreen," not "recording engineer" and "popper stopper." This was for live use with small diaphram dynamics (read: SM58). There ain't no expensive diaphrams there.

Of course the guy wanted to protect his mic's. But I still hated the winscreens. I never knew who's lips and spit were on it the week before and what germs I was releasing. *Yuk* If that ever happens again, I'll just bring my own SM58.

[Lopp]

Originally posted by PowerCouple

Maybe you can put them in your microwave to dry them a bit!

That might kill the germs!

[philboyd studge]

Had some time this moring to experiment recording a couple of guitar/vocal tracks using two C-1's with no popper stopper on the vocal mic. It's cleaner, richer and more even across the spectrum and for some reason the vocal mic picks up less of the guitar. I'm starting to suspect the culpret is the hoop, in that it's getting in the way of the pickup pattern of the mic in addition to causing unwanted reflections.

[Shockwave]

I'm glad to see somebody agrees! Question is, what's worse- mouth chode on the mic or some nice high frequency loss. I have to believe I can hold my spit with the best of em and go without a pop screen. I'll spray some fanastic on the mic to clean it now and then. (just kidding!) This is for my recordings, I'm comfortable with my own spit. I would *always* use the pop for anyone else.

[darrin_h2000]

Get Spit On those Diaphrams. or blow on them you may as well throw away the mic, It'll never be the same again.

[SOUND DIAGNOSIS]

If this frequency loss is real, why are major recording studios still using them? Is it possible that your ears/brain are being fooled? Are you doing and INSTANT side-by-side as well?. I'll tell you one thing, I had my son make various high-freq. hissing noises and listened with/without screen and honestly heard NO difference. I am going to try other sound sources before actually tracking my vocals in the near future after what you guys have been stating in this thread! You got me going here! :O) Can we have any other experts chime in on this issue? Definately interesting reading. -----ROB (EARS OPEN WIDE)

[philboyd studge]

Shockwave,
I think it depends on how hard your singing and how close you are to the mic as to weather or not to use a pop screen. For stage use I'm right on top of it (beta 57) but for recording I'm about 6" away (C-1) and after today's test I don't think the pop screen is necessary.

Soon as I can figure out 'spectrum analysis' on Sound Forge I'll make a comparison.

[chessrock]

So many of these cheaper condensers have got such a high frequency bump, I don't think you have to worry about losing any of the crucial higher frequencies due to the filter. If anything, it will help.

[Shockwave]

I can only go by what I hear, and what I hear is more highs in the sound. Now lets keep in mind my set up. Shure KSM 27 mic running direct into the Korg d1600 pre's. That's right, no external pre amp. I have a crap pre amp, so I chose to do without it rather than it sounding like shit for the sake of a pre amp. The d1600 pre's are also very quiet and they yielded a very clean track with little noise. But, that's making me run the trim a bit hotter. It's also pulling me in closer to the mic, but not eating it. I'd say 6-8 inches away. I had to get this recording done and could not wait until I bought a pre amp. Ultimately, I will be getting a good pre amp, which will change my whole way of tracking vocal. Then I'm sure having the pop in line will be less of an issue, in fact, I agree it may help. And the issue of getting spit in the mic is a very real concern as I don't have the bucks for a new one just like that. But, the way it sounds best now, I mean A/B'd there is truely a marked difference, is no pop in line. I'll be interested to see an analysis philboyd. By the way, this vocal is for a country tune mid tempo, not a screamer.

[meriphew]

I'm using a Stedman screen, which blocks the pops, but does not alter the sound. Very nice.

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com

[Shockwave]

By the way sound diagnosis, make sure one of your sound sources, in fact the deciding one, is YOUR voice. Various high frequency noises would be the last thing I'd be checking. If you can't hear a difference then I think you should stick with the pop screen. I go case by case; what's going to get me an optimal sounding track and this time it was no pop. Go figure!

[CyanJaguar]

always use a filter, especially if other people record vox with your mic.

[philboyd studge]

Before this thread came up there's been something bothering me in the course of the last year and the thousand or so vocal tracks I've recorded. For some reason with everything being the same in the recording chain, a vocal will come out thinner and more distant. I never considered placement or use of a pop screen as a factor, but now I think it is. Gotta look into this further.