Recording and mixing levels

[phosphor]

Hi,
Cakewalk and I are starting to get along better these days - thanks in particular to this site. I'm starting to work on my mixing abilities, and I would like a few pointers here.

I record each track seperately (bass, guitar, voice etc) ensuring that the windows mixer levels are adjusted so the record level for that particular track in cakewalk console view stays out of the orange area (and doesnt trigger the red light)

When mixing I get the volume sliders how I like, but I constantly find the Main meters go into the red (and I sometimes can hear pops when it does). Only by reducing each track down do I get it so the main meter level never goes red. Problem is when I export and convert to mp3 the sound levels are very low compared to other mp3s that I have.

Am I missing something?

I use a sennheiser e845S mic straight into my SBLive.

(perhaps not the greatest description - what other details can I provide?)

[AlChuck]

See this recent thread...

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...threadid=45057

[phosphor]

interesting article. I dont find the clipping a problem, I've already been lowering the levels on tracks in my mix to avoid it - and using the reduce by 3db feature on areas of a track that may have a kick or a whack (ie too loud, sounding out of place with the rest of the track).

My problem is that my mix (with carefully adjusted volume sliders in the console view to get it as loud as possible without clipping) is always very quiet when compared to other mp3s/cd tracks.

Is this a mixing problem or a recording problem? I know i'll get inferior results with my mic straight into my SBLive, is this an example?

Thanks for the advise AlChuck, much appreciated.

[postalblue]

that's a mastering problem, i mean, a problem to be solved during mastering. assuming you're recording signals that are as hot as possible without clipping, and you're mixing down with the main busses at 0db. you can get the extra volume during the mastering stage, but if what you're getting is REALLY quiet when compared to commercial cds, then there might be something else wrong, i guess.

adriano

[phosphor]

mastering you say... interesting.

Your correct in that I push the recording signals as high as I can get without clipping, but could you explain (for the newbie that I am) what you mean about mixing with the main busses at 0db.

I've heard people talking about this in another thread - does it mean that you leave the sliders up at 0db in the console view of cwpa?


thanks for your help people!

[postalblue]

I've heard people talking about this in another thread - does it mean that you leave the sliders up at 0db in the console view of cwpa?

yup, but not the track sliders. the main busses are the ones to the right of the track sliders.

adriano

[crosstudio]

Here is my long-winded opinion:

there's a difference between the peak level of a sound and the average level of a sound. While you are tracking you are ensuring that the peak level of your sound stays out of the red.

then while mixing you try to get all your tracks to blend well without having a digital over in the main outs.

if you set your cakewalk tracks so that playback shows both peak and rms, you'll see a big difference between the peak level and average (Root Square Mean) level of your sound.

average level is the level of the "perceived sound you hear with your ears". peak level is what causes digital overs.

MAKING THE MIX HOTTER:
compress the individual tracks (as necessary) to get the average level of the track closer to the peak level. if you are applying EQ to a track to remove a large section of frequencies (ie.. high pass filter or low pass filter) put the EQ before the compressor. If you are using EQ to scoop out a particular frequency so that some other instrument sits better in the mix, put the EQ after the compressor.

[That last statement about where to put your EQ/Compressor in the chain was pure Crosstudio and you can take it or leave it. Up until 2 months ago, I always put the EQ after the Compressor, till i figured out that it's stupid to have my compressor working hard on frequencies that I don't want to show up in the mix anyway.]

MAKING THE MASTER HOTTER:
use a multi-band compressor [like the Waves C4] and a look ahead peak limiter (like the Waves L1 or DSP-FX optimizer] as necessary during mastering. The multi-band compressor can help tame (the peak/rms level thing again) frequency sections:

low: bass/kick
low-mid & mid: guitar, snare, male vocal
high-mid: female vocal, synth pads, and such
high: cymbals and such

The look ahead peak limiter should be used to cut off the really quick peaky transients that made it through the compressors but don't add any quality to the sound. don't set the limiter too low or you will cut off the transients that do add quality to the sound.

be very careful with the multi-band compressor and peak limiters during mastering. if you are over-agressive with them, you will make a beautiful song sound like hot crap. the levels will be plenty hot, and the sound will be plenty crap.

I am finding that the more attention to detail I pay to the way i play, and the way I compress/eq the individual tracks... the less i need the multi-band compressor. but i still always need the peak limiter because the really quick transients still drive down the average level of the sound. on tape units those really quick transients provide saturation. on digital they provide clicks and pops.

[Paul881]

Besides the great reply Crosstudio has just posted, read some of the articles in ProRec, here's one:

http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.ns...2566B9001EF763

BTW, it is not a good idea to use the + or - 3db tool in CW. It is a destructive effect. By reducing and then taking it back up again, it looses adio integrity. Same as Normalisation, to be avoided wherever possible.