Cloud Expertise?

[Todzilla]

Gradient Pressure Fans:

Enclosed is my latest thought on how I will construct ceiling for my 16' X 23' X 10-14' detached studio. Note the cloud concept with open back full of fluffiness.

Any thoughts on best cheap cloud fill?

Any thoughts on cloud box face that points down?

Thanks in Advance,

[dirk_demon]

A cloud... Hmm. Rather... eer.. let's say unusual. Is it just pure esthaetical or does it have a function of some sort...

Anyway, for the filling I'm thinking cotton buds or something, it's cheap and fluffy.

Good luck with your cloud!
Dirk Demon

[Todzilla]

Clouds, as I have heard them refered to by several acousticians (for lack of a better word) are suspended frames which hold absorptive materials which face the ceiling, usually a cathedral ceiling. The idea is that sound bounces off the ceiling into the open fluffy face of the cloud and gets absorbed. It can be raised or lowered which I suppose has some effect on the working frequencies on which it is effective.

I understand they are quite in vogue these days, which probably means within 2 years they will be maligned.

[Bushice]

I would guess that there would be always be some sound leakage or stray sound waves around the edge of the cloud that could cause problems, or that you'd need to be pretty well up on the physics of sound waves in order to get it right. Is it cheaper to do it that way?

Bushice

[dirk_demon]

Then what is the advantage of a "cloud" to a normal suspended ceiling? If you make a sturdy suspended ceiling with enough sound proofing it'll make a great storage room too.
But that's just my 2cents...
Dirk Demon

[longsoughtfor]

Though I didn't know there was a name for it (Cloud) I am planning on doing something similar in my control room. I have seen one in a studio I work at and it appears to work fine. I will probably just use unfaced fiberglass or rock wool on top of mine.

It is appealing because it limits some reflections but still gives you a sense of space overhead.

Cheers
Kevin.

[longsoughtfor]

... as for the underside of the cloud, I guess it depends on the situation. The one I have seen is reflective, it is 1/4" plywood with a polyurathane finish. It looks nice. If you want to though you could easily wrap some 703 and glue it up there as well.

Kevin.

[longsoughtfor]

F.W.I.W... I just did a search on google for "acoustic cloud" and turned up a few hits. Most were theater & stage applications but this one was from Frank Manzellas web site:

http://www.fmdesign.com/fmmirror.htm

I did not run across any theory behind them though. If you make it parallel to the floor, it will set up a mode that needs to be dealt with. Most that I have seen at slanted slightly.

Kevin.

[dirk_demon]

You can also fix some lights in it, I don't know if this thing is gonna work, but it'll look sweet! A downright babe magnet! Okay, maybe that's a little overdone, but a slanted suspended ceiling does look cool, I gues...
Good luck! When you finished it, make sure to post a pic, I can't wait to see it!

I'm not trying to pull you down, I'm always into new things! Please also tell us if the acoustiscs in your room got better!
God B with U eager DIY-er!

Dirk Demon

[longsoughtfor]

A downright babe magnet!

... yeah, I was walking down the street last week and this gaggle of supermodels came up to me and asked if I had an acoustic cloud... if only I knew then...

[ausrock]

Was it a gaggle of giggling supermodels?

[John Sayers]

I figure there are three kinds of clouds.

1) transparent clouds with insulation inside to create a dead ceiling.

2) Same as 1 but with reflective below to break up floor to ceiling reflections.

3) same as 2 but without the insulation to break up reflections and create more as in a live booth.

Clouds are a cheap way of finishing off a ceiling as you can mount the light fittings in it and give the ceiling a whole new look. Little clouds scattered over a ceiling can fix a low ceiling where you can't afford much space.

cheers
john

[sgibbons]

Originally Posted by John Sayers

Little clouds scattered over a ceiling can fix a low ceiling where you can't afford much space.

John - Could you elaborate a bit more on this?

I'm currently designing the best basement project studio I can, considering the 7' ceiling handicap. I'd been assuming that I couldn't afford any liveliness in a tracking room with such a short ceiling. But could I use a reflective cloud at an angle to come up with something that would sound better than recording in a dead room with an outboard "room reverb" on top? The floor is concrete; two walls (one short, one long) are cinder block/concrete. The other walls will be drywall. Could I do more harm than good since I'm not an acoustician? Or is it easy enough to use my ears to find the right angle / height?

This would be for tracking guitar and bass amps. I might do drums in a pinch, but in general I'd prefer to track drums in a commercial studio to get something better than a kludge.

What about for the CR? (with the same 7' ceiling)... Would you recommend I float a cloud over the console, or would a matte-painted drywall ceiling mounted on RC be an adequate sparring partner for the concrete floor?

Any suggestions (other than "sell the house and buy one with 20' ceilings in the basement") would be very much appreciated!

thanks,
- Scott

[DDev]

Scott,

I don't know that I can answer your questions but I just wanted to point out that this thread is over 3 years old and John doesn't post much here anymore. If you want to get his adivce you'll probably need to go to www.johnlsayers.com and check into the discussion forums.

Good luck,
Darryl.....

[sgibbons]

Thanks, Darryl. I've been perusing Sayers' website throughout my design process, and it's truly invaluable. But I didn't find anything on his site about this. And this historical post was so brief, it's more of a tease than informative.... So I'm hoping for some useful feedback, even if it's "nope can't be done." Is anyone out there using, or know how to implement a cloud to overcome the problems of a short ceiling?

Guess I'll pop this question over at the discussion forum at Sayers' site too...

best,
- Scott

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

The use of "clouds" are three fold. One is reflective, to direct early reflections to the back of the room for increasing a TDG (Time Delay Gap) and creating a RFZ(reflection free zone) at the engineering position. This would depend on the depth of the room and the existing ceiling height as the cloud would have to be angled towards the rear wall and the distance to the rear wall should allow for a
TDG of more than .2ms(I think) than that of the studio. Two, if this room depth and ceiling height is short, then the cloud shoud be absorbant, and to a certain extent, interups standing waves(allows them to start moving) between the floor and ceiling at the engineering position as well as absorb early reflections off the ceiling. Three, they look cool , and can provide a place for flush lighting as well as a frame for mounting resistance absorbers. Now for my disclaimer. I am NOT an expert and my .02 is subject to correction by those that ARE. And I hope they do. That way I learn too.
fitZ