convince me that i need a preamp...

[WEBCYAN]

I really beleive in the idea that you should take what you have and do the best you can with it. I know you cant make a fender strat sound like a les paul( ) but I do think that using the stuff you have(no matter how inexpensive) the right way you can get some good results.

heres my problem...

There are 3 things I was going to spend my money on very soon. A 100 Watt guitar amp, a bass guitar, and a preamp.

I need the bass, and I need the amp.....but Im begining to wonder if I really need the preamp.

I could care less whether or not I can show it off to my friends or if I dont have lots of flashy LEDs. I just want good sound.

I recorded the following using a sure sm57 pluged into the mic input of my soundcard. no preamp, just the one on the soundcard.

I think it sounds fine. I even played the songs "Brena", "Orestes", and "3 Libras" by A Perfect Circle and THEN played my version of 3 libras. I didnt notice a "difference". My recording fit with the cd. there wasnt a noticable change in quality or tone, etc... It sounded as though it flowed with the rest of the cd.

So, given that, why should I spent $100-$200 on a preamp? I also need monitors and I would rather spend my money on those.

I seriously dont think I need them. Theres no hiss or anything else in my recording...so why should i use a preamp?

If you can convince me, then do. Or let me know that I might not even need one after all.

my recording: http://www.voxpox.com/files/3librasgood.wav

****note: my singing is quite off here. The vocals are far too low and my pitch was off,,,so ignore the vocals. also, the tempo is bad cause I did it "freehand", no click track or drums. Also....there are no drums or bass so the top and bottom ends of the frequency are "bare". do take that into consideration..

[richthirst]

No point in trying to convince you, you'll know when you need a better preamp.

Till then buy your amp and guitar and practice

[VOXVENDOR]

YOU NEED A F*CKING PREAMP.... BUY ONE OR ELSE!!!!!!

Is that convincing enough?

[FZmontanaDF]

I think APC used a preamp....










Sorry, had to do it.

[Slackmaster2K]

Hehe, maybe after you get your monitors you'll be able to hear differences between two completely different sounds

Sorry to pick man....I'd say that you shouldn't buy anything that you don't think you need. Soon enough you should know what you need next.

Your sound could be a lot worse, considering the quality of most soundcard mic preamps...but it's no where near the quality of the source you're A/B'ing with. What's the weakest link? Get your monitoring system first.

Slackmaster 2000

[charger]

That's amazing that you didn't notice a difference, when comparing your electric guitar tracks to A Perfect Circle's acoustic guitar tracks. And by the way, can you compare your sounds to another album please? There are so many other bands in the world than A Perfect Circle, and surely you must be interested in doing more than A Perfect Circle covers.

[WEBCYAN]

but im sick of spending hundreds on somthing that really wont make that much of a difference.....

will a preamp really make it sound alot better? and if so, what will be better about it???

[dr.colossus]

i agree with slack2k on the monitor issue

[darrin_h2000]

Id scrap the plan for a 100watt amp,get a 20 watt instead. Then take the money you save and get a decent preamp.

The 100 watt amp will need to be alot louder to give you the tone you want than the twenty. Chances are the twenty watt one will sound even better breaking up at a low volume.

A good tube pre like the dbx is a bargain and you could swing it if you dont get the monster amp.

[VotaIdiota]

Originally posted by darrin_h2000
Id scrap the plan for a 100watt amp,get a 20 watt instead. Then take the money you save and get a decent preamp.

The 100 watt amp will need to be alot louder to give you the tone you want than the twenty. Chances are the twenty watt one will sound even better breaking up at a low volume.

A good tube pre like the dbx is a bargain and you could swing it if you dont get the monster amp.

I believe whole-heartedly in this approach. Currently in our band, I have a Fender Stage 160.... great live amp, but an absolute horror to try and get a good sound out of recording, simply because it's SO FUCKING LOUD.
thankfully, our singer/guitarist is finally going to go electric, and as such is getting a princeton 65.... my days of recording woe are over!

[Slackmaster2K]

Yeah, assuming you're talking about a tube head....100W is mega fucking loud, and the amp will sound best with the gain cranked pretty well.

I tell you what, a little 15-25W fender tube amp is loud enough to physically hurt your ears. If you're going to be mostly recording, and playing in small areas (like your dorm room), then raw power is not what you necessarily need. Guitar players are often too concerned with watts and not concerned enough about how it's going to sound in their environment. Play a bunch of different amps at the music store is all I can recommend.

Yes, a preamps are a HUGE part of any sound. When you see these neve, api, telefunken, great river, etc preamps going for several hundred dollars to several thousand dollars a channel, there is a very good reason.

Do you need a preamp right now? No, you're obviously not at a point where you even know what a preamp is and how it can affect your sound. It takes time when you're doing it all by yourself, believe me. One day, though, you'll start to hear the other half of your music...the tone and texture, and suddenly you'll realize why your favorite recordings sound so good. Seems like it should be obvious, but it's actually not.

Get your monitor system first. Either active monitors or passive monitors and a power amp. And since you're running out of your soundcard, you might want to look into a little analog mixer to control the volume to the power amp or active monitors.

Once you can hear, you can make judgement calls....or at least get a handle on what you like and what you dislike.

Slackmaster 2000

[WEBCYAN]

thanks. that did help.

i think i will scale the amp back...

I currently have a little 10 watt practice amp. Its a Squire Champ 15.

the problem with it is that the "clean" tone isnt smooth enough, and the "distortion" thats built in is REALLY bad. it sounds like its hollow and rattley instead of thick and warm.


Heres what I really need to know
------------------------------------------------------------
so....if I get a Behringer Ultra Voice Pro preamp(the only one i can afford, so dont convince me to get another one) and play the exact same "3 libra" riff will it actually sound better than the one I posted here. and if so.....what will sound better about it? I really need to know this before Ill ever think of getting a preamp.

[Dolemite]

Originally posted by FZmontanaDF
I think APC used a preamp....

LOL!

They're just weird like that. I hear Maynard insisted on it.



BTW, I hear Antares' stock just went up after your .wav was posted, webcyan.

[WEBCYAN]

Antare?

whats that?

and....will anyone answer my question that i keep repeating.

[Slackmaster2K]

I can guarantee that it will sound DIFFERENT.

Sucks, doesn't it? Especially since you're looking into another low end preamp.

There are never any guarantees. You buy gear because you know that a specific piece of gear in your lineup is letting you down. The right way to buy gear is to check out some new gear and see if it's what you want. If you can't do it, you just order shit and cross your fingers. Sorry man...

Slackmaster 2000

[crosstudio]

Webby

if i were you i would NOT buy a preamp. obviously, if you don't know why you need it, then you won't use it. i wasn't wearing rubbers in the 80's because i wasn't concerned. now i strap up everytime because i see the point.

one day, when you've recorded and mixed your tracks and put them into your friends car stareo and he tells you how bad your sound sucks even though he likes your song, then you'll think about the preamp issue.

i'd get the monitors and not the preamp. don't get something you won't appreciate.

[overseas]

My vote goes for the monitors first, too. That's perhaps the most important pert of your recording chain. However, I can gurarantee that when you have decent monitors, you'll then be able to appreciate why you would beneift from having a preamp as well.

A preamp will bring out the clarity, space, and detail of an acoustic guitar or vocalist. It's a lot like putting a microscope on every harmonic that emminates from the acoustic source you're recording. I was amazed at the difference in clarity and fullness I could achieve after I got mine (an Event EMP-1). If you don't believe that, rent or borrow one, record something with and then without it, and compare.


Bruce in Korea

[Dolemite]

Originally posted by WEBCYAN
Antare?

whats that?

Antares Autotune


Get a frickin' preamp. It'll sound better. Get a used ART Tube MP for $60 or an Audio Buddy for $80.

BTW, WTF do you need a 100 watt amp for?

The answer is, you don't!

Get a preamp and a real soundcard.

[WEBCYAN]

ok. youve convinced me.
I just didnt want to spend money on somthing I didnt feel like I really needed.

[darrin_h2000]

I have a 10 watt amp, a Tech 21 Trademark ten. Best tone out there I think. It actually costed me more than my 100 watt tube head.

Monitors are a good idea but, you need the preamp first because you do the tracking first. and whatever is coming out of your monitors is going to suck if you dont track right in the first place. Even if your monitors are the best(NS10s).

When Its time to mix down your project then get some monitors.

[WEBCYAN]

will do.

my birthday is the 18th.....so hoping monitors are the gift of choice.

that sounded akward.......hehe the word "akward" looks akward.

feh..........

[Dolemite]

Originally posted by WEBCYAN
that sounded akward.......hehe the word "akward" looks akward.

'specially when you spell it wrong

[sjoko2]

forget about the amp, forget about the preamp
Look at the best amp in the world, the UniValve at http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/index.html
Don't forget to read the reviews, in the UK guitar magazine made a seperate catagory for it, its that much better than anything else, ever.
I have actually SOLD my orange, vintage marshalls and 2 brown AC30's - as they never got used anymore.

The UniValve is "A" throughout, and has a build in HotPlate, so you can use it as a pre to feed other amps, you can use it without a speakers, and it has a balanced line out, so you don't need a pre.

Email me if you want to find a place with good prices on THD stuff

[Dolemite]

Leave it to sjoko to blow your next 2 years' gear budget on a single esoteric piece.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Hey Sjoko... you become a Canadian recently??
(Scarborough...)