Good crash cymbal for wailing on

[asi9]

Our drummer is going to pick up a new crash cymbal; we play metal and he does a lot of wailing on the thing, using it to drive the beat (like Sepultura or Soulfly). Does anyone know what kind of cymbals yield that really hard-sounding "Kssshhh, Kssshhh"?

Also, some processing recommendations would be good.

[Salabim]

hey...

depends on what he is willing to spend really...
there is a heap of different options, and basically it all comes down to personal taste really.

personally i think that if its gonna be used to drive the beat, rather than to cap off a fill, you'd be after a larger crash - 18" or bigger.

Paiste 2002 20" medium crash?
or if your after some grunt, something like the Paiste RUDE 17 or 18" crash (they are fucken heavy as, but they have some ass to them!)

these are just what i'd be looking at if it were me. as i said, it basically up to personal taste, and what sorta music you play. Just head in to the music shop, and have a good hard hit at a few cymbals and see what sounds nice.

cheers
Tim

[Abbott]

I play a lot of hard rock and drive the beat with the crash as well, and I use the Sabian Pro Cymbal. It has a perfect ring, great decay, everything. It's reasonably light too, so it is better to drive the beat on.

[Sonic Misfit]

I agree with the Sabian Pro....price performance is much better than some cymbals, whose name starts with a 'Z.'

[Whoopysnorp]

I agree...I have a drummer friend who's a total gear snob. Only plays Zildjian everything. Now, Zildjian makes good stuff (I love my New Beat hi-hats), but I have a Sabian Pro 16" cymbal that sounds fine. It's got a nice tone, and you can whale on it pretty well. It sounds great on my recordings. If I hadn't gotten it before hearing this guy's advice, I probably would never have gotten it.

On the other hand, I do love that Zildjian Rock Ride he has...better start checking eBay.

[warlock]

I think he is talking about a china and not a crash.

Keijo

[dr.colossus]

...well that may be a good point, if it is a china your after, you can't go past "wuhan"... i dunno if you can still get 'em, but they are where its at as far as china's go.....

on the cymbal matter, the pasties may be a little to "bright", they're the kind of cymbal you only want to hit now and then, when you really need that sort of cut, imho.

[warlock]

It depends on the series, our drummer uses all Paiste 802 series and I wouldn't call them bright.

I'll be recording his kit this weekend and I'll deffinetly post some samples.

Keijo

[asi9]

Hey thanks everyone..... we ended up with a 17" Ziljian K Custom... had a really "hard" quality to it, and each hit on it is really distinguishable. I think it will definitely work.

[fenix]

What's your problem? Name one metal player (signed) out there that plays a 17" cymbal. If you play metal, your smallest crash should be an 18" cymbal, though many metal players prefer smallest crash to be 19".

for a good whailing cymbal, I would have recommended the Sabian AAX Metal 20" crash. This thing rocks and is hard to crack. The 17" K Zildjian will sure to crack if that dude whails on it.

good luck.

[dr.colossus]

Originally posted by fenix
What's your problem? Name one metal player (signed) out there that plays a 17" cymbal. If you play metal, your smallest crash should be an 18" cymbal, though many metal players prefer smallest crash to be 19".

for a good whailing cymbal, I would have recommended the Sabian AAX Metal 20" crash. This thing rocks and is hard to crack. The 17" K Zildjian will sure to crack if that dude whails on it.

good luck.

this is the sort of forward thinking musicianship which will thrust musical creativity into the future....dude, notice something else about metal drummers? they all sound the same.... my smallest crash is 20", but i am by no means a metal drummer, if the thing sounds good use it!!!! you don't become a signed artist by doing what every other guy is doing....grow up dude

[fenix]

Originally posted by dr.colossus


this is the sort of forward thinking musicianship which will thrust musical creativity into the future....dude, notice something else about metal drummers? they all sound the same.... my smallest crash is 20", but i am by no means a metal drummer, if the thing sounds good use it!!!! you don't become a signed artist by doing what every other guy is doing....grow up dude

-Not all metal drummers sound the same. If you think the drummer in Sepultura and the dude in Slipnot sound the same, you got your head in your ass.

-I never said that it's a rule that only metal players can play big cymbals so lay off.

-Like you said, if it sounds good use it. This is true. Big cymbals sound good with metal music (and others types of music too) which is why they use them.

-another point I'd like to make is that your post made no sense at all. If, indeed, you don't become a signed artist by doing what every other guy is doing, why did you say that all metal drummers sound the same? If they all sounded the same, according to you they would not become signed.

Obviously you don't listen to metal or are not a metal drummer enthusiast.

[dr.colossus]

sorry 'bout that fenix, dave lombardo is one of my favourite drummers... it's just that i get sick of music being catagorised. if you listen to mr. bungle or fantomas, you might get why i'm so pissed... you here these guys and then all other "metal bands" begin to sound the same.... its nopt that you wouldn't get signed its just that it seems no one is making an effort to be different, its continual replication if you get my drift, sorry again if i offended. it was probably just one of those days

[danondrums]

I have played heavy music most of my drumming life, and the biggest problem I have had is getting great projection from my cymbal crashes (I also played so hard that I cracked cymbals ALL THE TIME) What I needed was a cymbal that could take the abuse I dealt out and still have great tone.

To make a long story short, I tried HUNDREDS of cymbals and came to one that not only sounded great, but was affordable enough that in the rare event that I did crack it, I could replace it without needing to take out a mortgage...

The Paiste 502 20" Ride cymbal (yeah, really)

As a ride, this is just a beginner model, but smash it and you get a beautiful shrill tonal crash sound that sustains for eons and will carry over the loudest metal band you can think of.

I use this ride as a "crash" for my band's live set (I use two of them) and actually get complaints that they are TOO loud. But the tone reminds me of the main crash used by John Bonaham-- the sound that has even tone and carries with the kind of sustain that would make a Les Paul player jealous.

This is NOT a quick, dry crash sound. And it's not for the weak of heart--IT'S FOR THE LOUDEST MOST OBNOXIOUS METAL SOUND OUT THERE! hit it and enjoy!

[fenix]

i forgot to mention there are heaps of bands that use ride cymbals as crashes--foo fighters, nirvana, blink 182, and more. I use the zildjian 21" sweet ride as a crash sometimes to fill the mix. Especially live, when I want a louder crash sound, i'll use the sweet ride as a crash. Thin ride cymbals are good for this.

[cbcbd]

I think for his situation if would be good to invest in a nice crash ride. I have an old 70s 18" Zildjian crash ride and that thing is great for laying down a nice full backing.

I think it's not good to categorize instruments into any music category. But I believe that in many cases it's more important to match your new cymbal to the ones you already have than to try to concentrate on the band first. You can have one cymbal that you might think will work great for the band but then when you start playing your kit you realize that it doesn't match any of your other cymbals!!
That's why it's very important to take all of your cymbals with you when you are making a cymbal purchase so you make sure that it will match what you have. I have seen friends buy cymbals blindly and most times you can get away with that but many times you end up with a cymbal that doesn't compliment your other ones-this is more relevant with HH, rides, and crashes. Effects are a different story.

Doug