Floated Control Room Floor

[bwindsor]

John, others:

I am about to install the new control room floor and have a question:

I have decided to float two layers of plywood (5/8" and 3/8", glued and screwed) on top of fairly stiff, sponge rubber discs (about 3" diameter, 1" thick, spaced evenly throughout the room) and wonder if I need to fill the remaining cavity (only about 3/4" when disc is compressed) which will be left under the floor, between the existing concrete and bottom of this "subfloor"? I am not concerned about isolation, as this is a basement install, I just wonder if this airspace would create "resonation" problems, or is this too "thin" to worry about. The sub-floor will be covered with 1" pine planks, and of course, I will lay a vapour barrier on the concrete to begin. FWIW, the room is 12' X 16', with 10' ceilings, all corners 45 degrees (walls and ceilings) with base traps "built-in" to all corners (again, walls and ceilings).

Obviously, I don't want to find problems later and have to rip out the floor, but if I can save $ at this stage, I'd love to hear it...I'm "way" over budget.

I also thought of putting carpet underlay in between the vapour barrier and sub-floor, with the discs on top of this, thereby "deadening" and resonation...any thoughts on this as well, or is it all overkill, once again?

Thanks in advance for any all suggestions,

BW
Pinederosa Studio

[frederic]

I personally don't believe you will need to do a whole lot underneath the floor if its solid enough, and the rubber mounts are close together. The larger the span, the "softer" the floor will feel to your feet and heavy equipment/furniture, so space the close (12-16" max).

its possible that some LF could penetrate your floor and vibrate underneath, so carpet underneath might help, or on the control room floor surface. But depending on how you construct the actual foor, it might not be necessary.

For my control room floor, I've started to build a 1' grid of douglas fir 2x4's, and on top of that will screw down two 3/4" layers of HD plywood. Underneath that, at every intersection of 2x4, will be a 6" diameter wooden puck, screwed to the 2x4's. The underside of the puck, facing the existing floor, will just rest on the floor surface.

That and my making a remote-disconnect switch for the garage door openers immediately below me should help tremendously.

[John Sayers]

You are really trying to stop the new floor from resonating yet being a double layer if it does it will be at a very low frequency. The underfelt should help there. Seems fine to me

definitely have a plastic vapour barrier

cheers
John

[longsoughtfor]

BW - Since you have the plastic down, will you be using regular 2x4's for the floor frame or pressure treated 2x's ?

Thanks
Kevin.

[Bushice]

BW,

I will be building a studio of similar size to yours this spring in my garage.

Do you have any Tips, suggestions, or whatever that could help me out? At this point, I don't even know what it might cost to do it, but since yours is very close in size to what I'm planning, any help on this topic would be appreciated, especially since you mentioned you were "way over budget"!!

Also, Do you have any pics of it?

Thanks

Bushice

[bwindsor]

Thanks John,

Last night I laid one of the 4X8 sheets on the rubber discs and walked on it...seemed very slightly "springy" feeling...is this normal with floated floors, or should I use a stiffer rubber? It's not too late for me to change, as I'm picking up the discs later this week, and maybe with all the racks, console, etc. this will be a non-issue...anyway, thanks again for any and all suggestions.

BW,
Pinederosa Studio

[bwindsor]

longsoughtfor,

This installation does not use a "frame", instead, it sits on top of the isolation discs...the top sheets are laid "crossways" to the sheets underneath to give "rigidity" to the seams, and all sit about 1" off the concrete floor underneath. You may be asking why I need the vapour barrier, and that's a good question, as I'm not really sure I do, but had lots of it left around from previous construction, and thought I might lay it down first "just in case".

Thanks for replying, any and all input much appreciated,

BW
Pinederosa Studio

[bwindsor]

Bushice,

If you supply your email, I can let you know details, most of what I've done/learned specific to studio construction came from these boards, and searching through previous posts helped quite a bit....many knowledgeable people here, even if I did slightly "alter" some techniques to fit my own circumstance.

Anyway, I can let you know specifics via email.

As for pictures, probably something in the (distant) future!

Thanks,

BW
Pinederosa Studio

[longsoughtfor]

BW - where are you getting the rubber disks? Mind if I ask the cost?

Thanks
Kevin.

[Bushice]

BW,

Yes I agree, This is an excellent resource. I hope to have some info to add to it this spring!!

BTW, E-mail has been sent.

Bushice

[bwindsor]

Kevin,

I bought a small piece of 1" thick rubber from a local supplier and cut 3" diameter discs
using a hole saw. The discs look similar to hockey pucks, but not quite as hard. I don't remeber the trade name for the rubber (they had one) but I asked for a stiff neoprene and this is what they recommended.
Anyway, I had decided that 2" X 2" square pieces would work as well, and for a 24" X 24" piece of this rubber, the cost was $150. (Canadian) This would make about 120 squares, more than enough for my 12 X 16 floor.

I have since found, for the same price, rubber mats which are sold as "anti-fatigue mats" at home depot...these are 3 foot square, and are manufactured so there are 9 one foot square sections that can easily be cut from this. My thinking is that 6 of these mats would give me 54 of the one foot squares, and being much larger, these "pads" would work at least as well, with easier and less cutting involved. The "footprint" would be larger for support purposes, and they are only about half the thickness.

Anyway, I am going to decide in the next two days which way to go...unless someone talks me out of it, I'm leaning toward the mats.

Hope this info helps, anybody think this wouldn't be a good idea?


BW
Pinederosa Studio

[longsoughtfor]

BW - Funny you should mention the "anti-fatigue mats" at Home Depot. I was there last night and bought 6 of them

I plan on cutting them into 4x4" squares to go under 2x4 sleepers on 16" centers. I did a test on 1 2x4 at home last night and it looks like they will work just fine.

Cheers
Kevin.

[bwindsor]

Kevin,

That's good to know!

After drawing a diagram, I think 5 mats might do it for me (45 squares).

I thought of cutting the squares smaller, as you are doing, but I wondered if cutting across the circular openings on the pads would somehow make the pieces less "stable" ...what I mean is, more susceptable to sideways movement when pressure is applied. The ridges underneath seemed to be more towards the outside of the 1 X 1 sections, whereas the "nibs" covered the inner area, and cutting smaller pieces made these little "nibs" the pressure points.

Anyway, I'm probably "way" too anal about this, let me know if this is no concern, and how they work out!

Weird about the Home Depot thing, "discovering" the mats, same day and all!

BW
Pinederosa Studio

[longsoughtfor]

I thought of cutting the squares smaller, as you are doing, but I wondered if cutting across the circular openings on the pads would somehow make the pieces less "stable"

I know exactly what you mean, I had the same concern. I plan on cutting the solid divider between every two holes. That should leave enough material to keep it stable.

Weird about the Home Depot thing, "discovering" the mats, same day and all!

I know thats cool! The thing about Home Depot (a warehouse type home improvement chain for those that are not familier with it) is that sometimes stuff like these mats are there one week then never there again. They looked like a decent, lower cost solution to floor isolation so I grabbed a bunch.

Cheers
Kevin.

[Bushice]

I have a question about the whole "floating floor" concept. I hope this doesn't sound stupid, but is there any shifting that occurs in a room of this type (since it is not in contact with the outerwall), or is the rubber secured in some way to both surfaces?

I'm just getting rolling on this whole project so bear with me if I sound ignorant at first!

Bushice

[John Sayers]

Looks like we are all going to the same hardware

http://locall.dataline.net.au/~johns...ages/page2.htm

My sheets were $100 each. 7' x 3' x 3/4"

The vapour barrier stop the damp from moving up into the timbers causing wet rot.

cheers
John

[Bushice]

John,

Are the Rubber strips glued on, tacked on, or just put in place?

Bushice

[John Sayers]

Nails shot into the concrete, that's all.

cheers
John

[Transputer]

Nails shot into the concrete, that's all.

Did you do the same with Left Bank ? Just curious as I am about to add on to my place. Presently my inner walls just sit there tied together at corners and roof, no bolts in concrete subfloor but I'm thinking building regulation might call for the bolt/ Vib X washer type attachment.

I'm trying to download the UK building Regs stuff now for general reference.

Cheers

[Bushice]

Trans,

Where I live (Southern California), I don't need a permit to build a "room within a room", since it does not alter the exterior of the house in anyway, and is not a load bearing part of the house. I even live in a fairly strict HOA, and they don't care what I do inside, as long as no changes are made to the exterior, including adding windows and doors.

I mention this because you may not have to conform to building codes in some areas of your construction project permit wise, except in terms of making it safe.
The only people I will need to hire will be a rough framing carpenter since I haven't done much of that, and an Electrical contractor, since I don't want to blow the place up!, but I don't need a single county or city building permit for my project, surprisingly. All contractors in this state must be licensed in order to do any work, but I wouldn't hire anyone off the street anyway, so I'm all set. Not sure how it is in England, though.

I plan on using much of the stuff John Sayers has provided on line in terms of soundproofing the room, but fortunately I don't need to comply with any codes there either, permit wise.

That being said, it is those little things, like securing the rubber pads to the floor / wood frame that a novice studio builder like my self will need to know. I can hammer a nail, and hang drywall and stuff, but the particulars of building an actual recording studio are not yet known to me.

Bushice

[John Sayers]

The nail shots are just to keep it in place while we build but the weight of the walls etc will keep it in place. Keep you r eye on Guruland and I'll try to keep you informed of all those little things we amateurs tend to forget about

We've been fucked around by the carpenters but we should get going again next week.

cheers
john

[snapper]

You can get real neoprene from binkelman corp.
http://www.binkelman.com/content/contactus.asp
A 4'x6' sheet 3/8" thick is $139.00. You can get whatever thickness you desire and have it cut to whatever size you like.

[snapper]

One more thing. Neoprene will not deteriorate like some other forms of rubber or foam. Something to think about if your laying it on a basement floor.

[Transputer]

Bushice

Thanks for the info. It seems to be much the same in the UK.

John - thanks - I'm looking forward to Guruland updates, looks superb.

Snapper - your place is looking great BTW. Yeah binkelman's neoprene looks perfect . I have found a UK supplier http://www1.rswww.com/ £113 odd for a 1.0 M by 1.2M 12mm Neoprene sheet.

Will let you know what I go with.

Cheers

[lyrical_22]

Everyone here is so adept in the techniques of studio crafting i was just wondering if there was a place that i could find a diagram or generic blueprint to help me with my space that i want to turn into a studio. i am considering raising the area for the control console and boards any ideas on how to go about that or wether it is even a good idea at all.
where could i find some good old-fashioned corking