pedals

[mojka]

I'm sure this is a dumb question but I would like to know if I buy a sustain pedal for my Roland Juno 106 (ancient) will it work if I'm using the keyboard as a midi system with my computer sound card (SoundBlaster Live) while recording with Cakewalk. My only concern is that none of the manipulative functions (e.i.: sustain, delay, etc...) work on the Roland when hooked up to the computer save for the tuning and key transpose functions. Is this a silly concern and if not any suggestions on a decent cost concious sustain pedal? Thanks in advance.

[TexRoadkill]

I'm not familliar with that keyboard but you say the computer wont recognize a sustain message from it? Is that different then the sustain pedal?

If your keyboard wont send a sustain message than no it wont work. You will need some type of midi controller that you can plug a sustain pedal into. I'm not aware of any stand alone midi sustain pedals but there could be some out there. You might need to get a cheap small midi keyboard controller that you can use for sustain.

[mojka]

Thanks for the reply. The keyboard has many different options for manipulating the sound when it is a stand alone unit but when it is plugged into the soundcard I lose the ability to use: decay and sustain which are the same apparently. Again the keyboard is old and it did fly out of the back end of a pick-up after a gig at 55 mph once, and it's also had it's share of beer poured on it by accident during many a bar gig, but the functions have always worked to this day but when I plug it in to the sound card they are over ridden. I might dump a beer on my computer. Thanks anyways.

[Chriss]

you have a juno 106 you bastard? gimme dat right now!!!

When you set the MIDI Function switch to position III, your juno will transmit sysex data from all sliders and buttons which can be recorded by your sequencer.. not exactely a clever choise of controller.. It's really difficult to write sysex data yourself.. but what the hell.. old synth.

as for sustain.. you see.. the way these types of adsr works is a bit fancy. Decay isn't the same as sustain..
Attack is the amount of time for the amplitude to reach peak level.
Decay is the amount of time for the amplitude to reach Sustain level
Sustain is the amplitude level the sound will stay at till you release the keys
Release is the amount of time from you release the keys till the amplitude reach zero

As for the pedal : Yes
by inserting the jack into the back panel, your juno will transmit Hold on/off data from the midi out. this is also recordable in cakewalk.
But with a sequencer, i can't really see any need for a hold pedal..

[Chriss]

http://www.hinzen.de/midi/juno-106/
lots of info

[mojka]

Chriss,
Let me get this straight. Your saying that a sustain pedal will work on the Juno 106 while I am recording into Cakewalk? Sequencing would be a whole new world that I can try and figure out when my kids graduate from highshool which will be many years from now, but at the moment I just want to be able to step on a pedal and get the same sustain that I get on a real piano and have that record into Cakewalk. If you are telling me this will work thank you very much. By the way, I went on Ebay just to see if the old Juno 106 might be there and sure enough there was about 10 units ranging from $10.00? up to $200.00. Thanks again.

[Chriss]

Yea.. the juno got one of dem jack stick hold pedals.. not shure if they made one specifically for the juno, but it's got one. and the data is translated to midi data and sent out the midi out

*runs off to ebay with a tail of dust behind him*

[mikeh]

I've got a Juno 106 and while I don't use it as my master controller (only use it as a "sound module") - I'm sure that sustain from a pedal should be a transmitted signal that Cakewalk should recognize.

I can't think of any specific reason why commands like delay, sustain etc. can't be transmitted to Cakewalk (or received back into the Juno).

One way to make sure the Juno has transmitted sustain - is to send a chord (or note) into Cakewalk with sustain. Then, go into the "piano roll" option on Cakewalk - if the sustain was received, there should be a long bar (which reflects the duration of the note). Send the same signal again and this time hold the key down (to achieve sustain useing hand technique rather than a pedal) and again check if the sustained note appears in Cakewalk.

If you have confirmed that Cakewalk is indeed receiveing and recording sustained notes - but the Juno won't play them back - you at least know it is a problem on the receiving end of the Juno.

Chriss - the reason for a hold or sustain pedal with a sequencer is to hold notes (as a performance technique). For instance - a piano performance normally is a combination of short and long notes - when you record the performance you need certain notes sustained

[mojka]

Thanks again!

[Chriss]

Originally posted by mikeh

Chriss - the reason for a hold or sustain pedal with a sequencer is to hold notes (as a performance technique). For instance - a piano performance normally is a combination of short and long notes - when you record the performance you need certain notes sustained

erhm.. i know.. but with a sequencer, all yo' gotta do is to extend the notes.. you're gonna quantisize the notes anyway..

[mikeh]

Maybe I'm old school, but I prefer to get the performance right. If I play a piano part, I want to record my performance, not spend time trying to "correct" the performance.
I rarely quantize, except on occasion the drum parts - and only then if they are really off.

Call me a purist (or possibly out of date with the "new" technology), but I've spent 30 years of my life trying to develop chops - I consider hard disk recording (or sequencing) the same are recording to tape (as far as performance - the key is to capture a good performance - not to play a few notes and then try to "fix" them.

[Chriss]

lol.. i make progressive trance and house.. 25 ms off can easily be heard if it's not supposed to be off. High hats can be off without sounding stupid and also bass, but if a piano is off with such tight beats, it sounds weird.

[TexRoadkill]

If you are more into true performing than you should probably get a good 88 key weighted controller and not worry about making the Juno work as a controller.

Your performance will only be as good as your touch and a newer controller will allow you a lot more control over the dynamics as well as offer aftertouch and other performance features that give you a more natural and controllable sound.

[mikeh]

Chriss, I had to reply one last time. I can understand that in the musical genre' of trance & house, tight patterns are a must and quantizing does make sense. Although it is not the musical style I choose to pursue I do appreciate the creativity that I have heard.

I'm sure you understand that in the majority of more traditional musical styles the music is allowed to have more breath and in fact quantizing is not a preferred approach. My personal playing styles lean more toward jazz and R&B, and I also do a lot of country production work, all of which require a fair amount of chops and an emphasis on capturing the passion and performance.

Perhaps we are simply comparing apples to oranges - technology and programming vs. technique and performance. Both are valid artistic pursuits.

What I don't understand is why you felt inclind to LOL at my comment that I prefer to go for a good performance, vs. edit a performance. I've always thought the whole point of being a musician was to play your instrument well and the original purpose of developing recording technology was to capture the beauty of a well performed piece of music.

TexRoadkill - I appreciate your comment, I agree that a weighted 88 is best for a true feel of a piano performance - but in my original post I indicate that I do not use the Juno as a controller - I simply use it on occasion for the analog sound engine.

[mojka]

Chriss,
Did you find it on E-bay?

[Chriss]

"What I don't understand is why you felt inclind to LOL at my comment that I prefer to go for a good performance, vs. edit a performance. I've always thought the whole point of being a musician was to play your instrument well and the original purpose of developing recording technology was to capture the beauty of a well performed piece of music. "

it's cause sometimes i simply assume that people want it as tight and clean as possible like i do.. was laughing at myself.. I've played classical guitar for 8 years, so i can appreciate a good performance.

mojka : i didn't check. I first gotta see what my account says when the next paycheck rolls in..

[mikeh]

Chriss - I understand