Sync Question

[Todzilla]

I have a Fostex Model 80 and a Midiman SMPTE syncbox. I stripe SMPTE code to tape, then the syncbox read its, converts it to MTC and tells MOTU Performer where the song is. Works pretty well.

I am contemplating freeing track 8 up by getting a Fostex 4030 SYncronizer from Ebay. But I am flabbergasted as to how it works. Doesn't any sync unit have to know the exact location of the program material as it passes the heads? How does the 4030 know where it is at any given time? Doesn't it need some sort of timecode or frame indexing to know where it is?

Am I missing something?

I'd love to understand these units before I spring for one.

Thanks

[Todzilla]

Can't nobody help a fella out?

Or is my query to esoteric?

[Blue Bear Sound]

I can't imagine how it would allow sync without a stripe... unless it were doing sophisticated hub-reel rotation analysis, or maybe the unit has a built-in sync "meter" the 4030 is privy to.

Otherwise, I don't understand how they'd do it either!

Bruce

[Todzilla]

Well if Ursa Indigo doesn't know, then I declare the issue an official mystery!

I've seen the big 2" machines do this too. Perhaps they lay some teensy time code in between tracks?

Thanks

[charger]

The big 2" machines have to be striped too. Usually track 24, the edge track.

[Todzilla]

...but I keep hearing that with an integrated sync box, you don't lose a track to time code.

am I just misinformed? I mean I figure there has to be some positional information stored somewhere on the tape.

Keepin' this techno nerd discussion alive...

[Blue Bear Sound]

Hey Todd...

Did you email Fostex?


Bruce

[Todzilla]

I hadn't. That's a good thought.

Do you think they have any remnants of reel to reel expertise left?

[Blue Bear Sound]

They probably have an "old-timer" tucked away in the back room somewhere, if the situation ever comes up!!!

[charger]

It could be just a relative reference, that uses the positions of the gears on the machine to gauge the amount of time that has passed. But a relative time code reference is unreliable, and about the only place it works is if you're cutting real film (and it's 1930). In that situation, it's fine, because you'll be working with maybe 50 feet of film, and the relative reference can be useful to tell you something like, you are 232 frames into the reel you're splicing.

Hoever, I doubt that many people use these anymore, especially since most online editing is now done on computers. A positional reference is absolutely necessary for sync, especially for analog tape. Even if you just had a timecode blip at the start of the tape, and you had a really accurate machine keeping track of elapsed time since the "blip" (a system that would work fine in the digital world), with analog tape there are too many other factors, like the fact that tape can stretch out, to keep the system resolved in this situation. Timing is bound to slip.

So the short answer would be, I don't think it's possible to sync analog tape without striping timecode. Unless the function of the sync box is to write the timecode in between audio tracks or something...

The 4030 is called a LTC-Synchroniser. LTC is Longitudinal Time Code, the most commonly used time code for striping analog tape. Therefore, my guess would be this box does the same thing as your current one; outputs SMPTE LTC to the tape, reads the LTC back, and syncs two LTC sources. It seems to be mostly used to sync two analog machines together, and it may have some machine control capabilities. But I don't think it's gonna save you a track.

[TexRoadkill]

There are video decks that have SMPTE burried in the control track. It does not require a SMPTE stripe. The advantage to this is that the tape does not need to be up to speed before the other devices can sync. They will also sync when FF or doing frame by frame.

But that is in the video world.

Maybe Fostex is using that on that deck but I dont know.

[charger]

That's VITC (vertical interval time code). VITC cannot be used on audio tape, because it is written in the video blanking field on each frame of video tape, and there are no "fields" on audio tape.

[TexRoadkill]

Charger that is correct. Thanks. Maybe they are using crystal sync to keep them at the same speed and just starting at the same point. Of course I'm just talking out of my ass and have never used the fostex stuff so you can all ignore my previous statements.

[A Reel Person]

-and MANUALS, believe it or not.

The punch line is, that I have not had sufficient time to setup and use this equipment, and have looked at the manual even less.

I will say, that the 4030 does use a track, striped for timecode.

There's more to it, but it's relatively similar to other synchronizers. I can't tell you any more about it, until I consult the manual.

-Gee, so much gear, and so little time.

[Todzilla]

So thanks to the myriad posters, I have learned that there's no such thing as getting my eighth track back and still syncing to a sequencer. That makes sense. I guess the only advantage of a Fostex synchronization system over my little Synchman box is that the Fostex syncronization can chase another deck or the synchronizer.

Thanks so much for dispelling my ill-founded hope before I bought the damn thing on ebay!

Cheers,

-Todzilla
http://www.mindspring.com/~toddjones