Am I on the right track with my "mastering"? (Hear Ozone here)

[KaBudokan]

(Again, mastering is in quotes so as not to offend the purists... )

I finally got around to playing with "remastering" a bunch of my tracks I have recorded over the past forever-and-a-half. I had been putting it off until I got my new system, and then felt a little unsure about where to start.

I picked up Ozone and the tutorial seemed to help me quite a bit. I started to understand a bit about how mastering compressors, EQ, etc. work. So, I've been working on some of my mixes, but was looking for some outside feedback, and you guys are my guys, so... All of this was done in Ozone, BTW, for those of you wanting to hear it without 20 second fade-outs.

Previously my "mastering" consisted of a bit of randomly applied EQ and compression, without a very good sense of what it was doing to the mix. Because I didn't do too much, I couldn't screw it up too much, but it didn't necessarily push it to the "next level" either.

I put 2 versions of my latest tune up here - one is the original, undoctored "rough mix," and the other is my "mastered mix." I'm pretty happy with it, except I think I may be a little too bass happy. I like low end, but when I played the mix in my car, I had to turn off the EQ I put on all my commercial cds, and then it sounded the same (with the same bass boost as the EQ'd cds). It doesn't sound too bassy on other systems though, including my monitors.

Anyway... check them out - one is titled "Believe rough mix," ad the other is "Hard to Believe," which is the mastered version.

http://www.shadyneighbor.com/music/

Oh - and a warning - THIS SONG HAS A LOT OF CURSING (even though it's fairly mellow)!!! Ok, there. Oh - another warning - these are encoded at 160 bitrate, so they're about 4.4mb each.

So - is it an improvement? What could be better? What do you think I did wrong? I'm sincerely interested in "mastering" feedback, which is why I posted this here and not in the Clinic. And please, be brutally honest here, as I am sincerely trying to improve.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by KaBudokan
(Again, mastering is in quotes so as not to offend the purists... )

I'm offended by the word "purists"...

Well... I think you went too heavy on both EQ and compression -- there's some very obvious pumping and breathing there that didn't appear in the original mix.

Guitar in the intro is too mid-heavy (compared to the original, which sounded better)

And bass is a problem... too deep without enough presence - this may be a tracking/mixing issue though.

But hey... keep at it - that's how you learn!

Bruce

[KaBudokan]

Thanks for the reply Bruce.

Listening to it again, after a day break, I can hear that there are some problems with the mix. I think I went overboard a bit with the compression and some of the EQ.

This is definitely a process for me - trying to find the right balance between enough and too much.

I am thinking I'll maybe try it with a combo of Ozone (which I did like the EQ and the stereo imaging, etc., with some of my old Waves standbys.

I'll post back with updates.

[LongWaveStudio]

i haven't listened to it yet, but from reading bruces post, my adivce to you is dont think you have to pin those meters down at 0. volume is not everything.

[tvaillan]

I like the style. Very nice. The mastering job sounds fine to me .. but then again, I'm an amateur.

I have done my first "mastering" attempts and need feedback as well.

I have two tunes for you to check out.

http://omega.honk.org/~tvaillan

One is called Blues outake , the other is Planet Rock.

The blues one is just me and a buddy soloing over a rythm i previously made. It was done in one take, but i tried to get the mastering just right.

The Planet Rock tune is actually a song that's about to get much longer. It's got a solo. Drums and bass however are on their way. This is the one i need feedback on.

I need help too. These are my first attempts and I really want to learn.

P.S. Let's not trash me please.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Oh my......... I'm not trying to be mean, but "mastering" is not the first thing you should be worrying about....

You've got to get your mix right before you even think about "mastering".........

The drums are just badly recorded - period. Wishy-washy sound due to phase problems, over-processed EQ - air and clarity do not come from boosting the highs! I don't hear a sign of bass... the guitars, however, are quite reasonable sounding as far as I could tell....

You obviously have playing talent, but as far as recording chops, you've got to crawl before you can run!

Work on your recording (tracking) techniques, then work on your mixing skills -- THEN you can worry about "mastering."

Keep at it though - patience and perseverance are fundamental requirements of sound engineering.....

Bruce

[tvaillan]

I welcome the honest comments Bruce. You nailed it right on the head.

The guitar is my instrument. Mixing is a new thing for me.

The drums are actually a session drummer track that hasn't been eq'd. It's probably my T-Racks that's causing some of the problem.

As for phasing, I think I know what you mean .. it's the drums ain't it.. more specifically, the cymbals. I don't know how to fix that. Any tips?

What you heard there was just drums, rythm guitar and lead guitar. .. it's actually part of a much longer tune that i have lyrics for. I'm just waiting for my bassist and my drummer. (The drums are gona be a hell of an ordeal)

Any techinical tips would be apreciated.

[zip]

"I'm offended by the word "purists"... "

How about...."engineers who know" LOL

I'll listen tomorrow as well but I doubt my opinions will be better than Bruces' or Eds'...

The kids are in bed and I can't crank up 85dB right now.

...I just had to add something to Bruces objection...

And Ed is exactly right...

Track as hot as possible with the best sound (not EQ) possible and avoid much of the "mastering software boost"...


zip >>

[KaBudokan]

Well, I certainly appreciate the responses. I have come a long way with my recording skills, but have a very far way to go still.

I did "remaster" the track, and all 3 version are up there.

I think, however, that, as suggested here and in a PM w/ Bruce, the problem lies further back in the process, in my mixes.

This song was basically written, recorded, and mixed in the course of one night, so I didn't spend a lot of time on it. I think my next task is going to be going back over some of my tunes and remixing them, focusing on getting everything as right as I can before moving to the next level.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. It's greatly appreciated.

PS - Ed, thanks for the compliments on the tune.

[zip]

When I played it I also had a look in my frequency analyzer and saw a lot of really low end stuff...below 30Hz...

It was even present early in the tune from the vocals but became even more prevalent when the bass kicked in. That may have also contributed to the "low resolution" sound Ed talked about.

Maybe you could add a high pass filter to the vocals to clear some of that. It seemed the ozone process accentuated it as well. Do you have a rolloff on your mic??

Hope this helps...

zip >>

[KaBudokan]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Getting advice from you guys about this specific process has been a HUGE eye-opening experience for me.

I'm kind of taking this tune as my "tutoring" file to try to really work through the issues with it and then "recreate" the process. This song is somewhat represntative of the type of sound I have on a lot of tunes, so it's a good one to play with.

I remixed the song this afternoon. I applied a high pass filter to several tracks that wouldn't need those lower frequencies. I also took off the lo-fi effects on the acoustic, which seemed to open things up when everything else comes in. I recorded the tune in a hurry (on New Year's Eve - how depressing ), and I guess the lo-fi "vinyl" thing on the guitar worked for me at the time, but I think it definitely helps the mix taking that out. The guitar is still fairly one-dimensional as I only used one mic on it (instead of two, like I usually do).

I eq'd the bass a bit, taking off a bit around 150hz or so, and trying to bring out a bit more presence in it, boosting slightly around 2k with a fairly wide Q. I also tried to clear up a bit of frequency overlap with other instruments. One of the organ parts I had was really mushing the bass up where they were both playing, and it cleared things up quite a bit by dropping the volume on that and eq'ing a touch.

When I processed this mix, I tried to be much more conservative. I compressed lightly and didn't use much EQ on it... So, since you guys have been holding my hand and walking me through this tune, if you want to take a listen to the new mix, that's be cool. If you can't stand my freaking song anymore, that's cool too.

http://www.shadyneighbor.com/music/H...ix%2016-44.mp3

Again, thanks very much for the help and feedback. I love this place.

[zip]

I'm doing this all from memory so...

I think the changes did open it up a bit. The vocals seemed a bit clearer than I remember the first time. I didn't see as much low end stuff as I did at first.

(BTW...if you are looking for a DAW plugin analyzer see tubedudes post about a plugin to check out - if you are like me and have smaller nearfields being able to see the low stuff really helps)

One other preference mixing comment I could make is during the guitar solo near the end. The keyboard voices seemed a bit loud which put the solo more in the background...maybe that was what you were going for though...

This almost made the solo a bit "tinny" sounding to me...but this again is preference as for a solo like that I prefer the thicker sustaining Santana like sound...

Easy for me to say - I'm not a guitarist!

zip >>