i don't want to write pop songs!

[samich17]

i've been writing and recording music for the past 6 years... i just recently started mixing digitally and mastering material to cd's...where do i go from here? been in and out of different studios with my final cd and most of the engineers agree that nothing should be changed, so where do i go from here? they all also warned me that having too many different styles on a cd would work against me if i was to try to push it to labels. but i don't want to write pop songs...i make white boy hip-hop, acoustic rants, soundtrack insanities...IS THERE NO SPOT FOR ME IN THE MUSIC COMMUNITY? i want my music to be heard and maybe make a dollar doing it, but it seems an unopen market for an artist with no particular style to brainwash people with..

[Uladine]

Yea its tough to market music when the "higher ups" want to hear something thats already been done. All I can say is stick with what you're doing and do it the way you want to do it and make sure you're having fun in the process. Post your songs on mp3.com, and push it around on the internet. You will find people who dig it. Garageband.com is a good place to put your music if you want alot of second opinions. If you want to submit music to record labels but you're afraid they won't like some of the songs, gather up the songs that can be roughly fit into a specific genre and sumbit those to one label, then gather songs of a different genre and submit those to a different one. Maybe push the fact that you are very diverse. Make sure you write or call them first to get permission to submit your material. If you just send a CD to them they'll probably just throw it away. But who knows, maybe someday record companies will be calling you because they heard your CD and think your style might be the next big thing.

[laj35]

Peace be to journey-----------It's in the process---------Laj

[CMiller]

Screw the lables. I guess you have to decide what's important to you. If you want the record deal, change. If you want to make music that is true to your vision, keep at what you're doing. I'm in a similar position in a way...I want people to hear my music, but it has a fairly wide range of styles (probably not as wide as I think it is).

All I can say is do what you do and look for avenues to get people to hear it. Put it online, there are a million places to do that. Ask around, you'll come up a few before you know it. Keep asking people to listen to it. You might have to do a little more leg work, but you can be successful. You have to define what success is to you though, and that might be the hardest part. Good luck!

[ace3]

Originally Posted by CMiller

Screw the lables. I guess you have to decide what's important to you. If you want the record deal, change. If you want to make music that is true to your vision, keep at what you're doing. I'm in a similar position in a way...I want people to hear my music, but it has a fairly wide range of styles (probably not as wide as I think it is).

All I can say is do what you do and look for avenues to get people to hear it. Put it online, there are a million places to do that. Ask around, you'll come up a few before you know it. Keep asking people to listen to it. You might have to do a little more leg work, but you can be successful. You have to define what success is to you though, and that might be the hardest part. Good luck!

exactly! well put

[Dogbreath]

"i don't want to write pop songs! "




I'm witcha....dats why I write beer songs.

















i know...i know...

[Daisy]

It kind of sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

On one hand, you want to be this diverse, "screw the masses" kind of artist. But at the same time, you want labels to take you seriously, and it sounds like you want to have enough, dare I say, "appeal" to make money at this.

Decide what you want. Do you want to have popular appeal? Then adjust your approach and give people what they want to hear and pay money for, because that's all about marketing. If you want to do your own thing and say "masses, be damned!" ... then don't expect to make a lot of money at this, or at least expect a tougher road ahead of you. I certainly don't envy a guy in your position, but also keep in mind that just because you have talent doesn't mean you're somehow "entitled" to make a living at this.

There are a lot of uber-talented artists out there, and only a very tiny segment of them actually make any sort of money for their efforts. There's almost no middle class out there, and I'd guess about 80% of the total revenue in the music biz is being made by about 1% of the artists. And if you're not going to be in that 1%, then you'd probably be better off financially to start a live band karaoke or wedding cover band.

[Nightfire]

Start your own label.


Mike

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Well, considering that it was 2002 when he was bitching about it, if he's still at it, he's been bitching for 12 years now .

Just what we need...Graham Parker without the talent...



G.

[DAS19]

I dont think there is a market for white boy hip hop eminems got that one covered.

[Ripthorn]

If you do whitey boy hip hop, then maybe you will recognize the age old line "are you in it for the money or in it for the love". Get that figured and your choice is made. I love making music, but I know I will never get signed. I don't like to lock myself in to one sound. That is why I spent all the time and money for college, to get a "real job" where I can make money so that I can spend it all on recording (not really, the wife keeps the spending well in check).

[steve.h]

Why are people still posting serious replies to this thread?

[Daisy]

Maybe some of us just like to take our time answering a question, Stevie.



You got a problem with that?

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Well, considering that it was 2002 when he was bitching about it, if he's still at it, he's been bitching for 12 years now .

Just what we need...Graham Parker without the talent...



G.

How'd you screw the math on that one, Glen?


2008-2002=6....

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Rokket

How'd you screw the math on that one, Glen?


2008-2002=6....

Ah, but he'd already been spinning his wheels for 6 years when he wrote the OP:

Originally Posted by samich17

i've been writing and recording music for the past 6 years...

2008-2002 = 6; 6 + 6 = 12



G.

[Daisy]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

he's been bitching for 12 years now .

That's a lot of bitching.

Even for this board.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Daisy

That's a lot of bitching.

You obviously have not met my family; 12 years is nothing for them. My 87-yr-old mother is still bitching about stuff my late father did in 1947 .



G.

[legionserial]

Originally Posted by Daisy

That's a lot of bitching.

Even for this board.

Well... I'm not sure about this board.

[MCI2424]

Originally Posted by samich17

i've been writing and recording music for the past 6 years... i just recently started mixing digitally and mastering material to cd's...where do i go from here? been in and out of different studios with my final cd and most of the engineers agree that nothing should be changed, so where do i go from here? they all also warned me that having too many different styles on a cd would work against me if i was to try to push it to labels. but i don't want to write pop songs...i make white boy hip-hop, acoustic rants, soundtrack insanities...IS THERE NO SPOT FOR ME IN THE MUSIC COMMUNITY? i want my music to be heard and maybe make a dollar doing it, but it seems an unopen market for an artist with no particular style to brainwash people with..

Pop songs are popular songs. If your songs are not popular songs, you have reached your goal.

[bardo]

Pop+o=poop!

[TerraMortim]

ah! fuck changing anything! Do what music you enjoy doing. If music isn't sincere, it won't mean as much to other people, either (other than a matter of fashion or trend). Don't EVER listen to what other people say about your music...just do what you feel is right. If what you feel is what other people feel, or think they feel too, you've got yourself a new fan.

This is actually something I've had to figure out with the last project I've been working on, pretty specifically. We're doing stuff that's all over the place musically (well, to a degree). Anyway, find a common theme... it doesn't even have to be strictly a musical one. For example, our theme is more based on an attitude (personas) and the WAY we do things, instead of the things we're using as tools themselves. So, the way we have it set up, we could do any idea from any genre under the sun, but it's the way it's done that keeps things fitting together as one whole unit.

But...do make sure to try for developing something in the way of a sound... like, maybe in the way the album is mixed, or the way the vocals are treated...or so on or so forth.

Do remember, anyone who did something new and meaningful were taking the road less traveled. People would tell them they were too much of this, or not enough of that... but at the end of the day...the bands that make music that they think will be "marketable" make really shitty music... music that is a flash in the pan. You'll make your buck and then be forced to move on and let the next person be the next big thing, or completely reinvent yourself every few years with all of that record label money thrown at your project and try for having a flash in the pan more than once, which isn't very common. Plus, most of the time, I find the people who are the worst offenders of this sort of thing are the sort of people have very little or no music experience, but still... the know-it-alls, eh?

So... just do what you want to do...fuck everyone else... enjoy music and people will enjoy it with you. Let your gut decide for you, not what some self described "expert" tries to say. You'll enjoy the process much more, at the very least.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by TerraMortim

So... just do what you want to do.

And want to do more.

A true lover of music doesn't think that it's his way or the highway, but rather enjoys and explores music thats all over the map. That doesn't mean that one has to like Miley Cyrus and the Beatles, but it does mean that one can enjoy performing music other than what their original muse inspires.

This opens up three things:

- first it opens up ones musical experience and exposure to different musical ideas, which can only add positive influence to one's original compositions and performances.

- second, and most germane to this thread is that it allows one to be both a bread-and-butter musician and an original creative talent. What's wrong with riffing on more accessible stuff that people can actually warm up to - it doesn't have to be sellout pop; there's a million forms of music out there that people *do* like - in order to actually pay some bills, while working on your personal muse the rest of the time. This is a formula that has worked for millions of musicians out there.

- third is that the wider one's appreciation of music, the more they'll understand that there's a reason why some stuff is considered avant-garde or underground, or whatever. It's just plain not easily accessible to or outside of popular taste. To be the next Tangerine Dream or Anal C**ts or Yoko Ono and to expect to have the success of Lyle Lovett or Coldplay or John Lennon is just plain unrealistic - and to expect your label's A&R guy to think otherwise is even more unrealistic. Wanna be the next angry young Anal Tangerine Ono Band? Knock yourself out! Find your niche. Wanna make a living to buy the house next to Bruce Springsteen'swith that act? Fuggedaboudit. You may be able to make a living, but it'll never be a huge one.

That's not anyone's "fault". That's life. That's how the universe is put together.

G.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

Ah, but he'd already been spinning his wheels for 6 years when he wrote the OP:2008-2002 = 6; 6 + 6 = 12



G.

OK, how did I screw that one?

Originally Posted by samich17

i've been writing and recording music for the past 6 years...

[TerraMortim]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

And want to do more.

A true lover of music doesn't think that it's his way or the highway, but rather enjoys and explores music thats all over the map. That doesn't mean that one has to like Miley Cyrus and the Beatles, but it does mean that one can enjoy performing music other than what their original muse inspires.

That was pretty much the point I was trying to get across as well. He makes really varied music and was worried about having to limit it to one single style. So, you're kind of preaching to the choir. As I said in my previous post, my latest full time project is a mish mash of a lot of different ideas genres styles etc... If anything, I'm encouraging him to do exactly what you said...do whatever comes to mind, regardless of how "absurd" it seems. However, I must say... always do things how your gut tells you.. if it's not sincere people will be able to unconsciously tell.. once it's not the fad any more you might as well be the new kids on the block. What's wrong with only doing music that is meaningful as an artistic expression? (in no way am I encouraging sticking to one single style of music or idea... explore them all... have fun with music... play with it, destroy it, change it, form it, mold it to your will... that's more on what I'm talking about)

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

This opens up three things:

- first it opens up ones musical experience and exposure to different musical ideas, which can only add positive influence to one's original compositions and performances.

Absolutely. I can't argue with that. The more styles of music I've done, personally, the more satisfied i've been with my compositions. There are other projects... More what I was speaking about is how to handle such diversity in one single project and still keep a sense of consistency. An example of this done badly is for instance when Ozzy started doing the whole reality show thing. It was completely inconsistent with the persona that he worked to build for himself over the past several decades. Now, we all know Ozzy as a raving old man who stutters a lot and mumbles all the time with bratty spoiled brat kids and can't figure out how to use the TV remote. Not to say Ozzy doesn't kick ass musically... but it taints his musical expression a bit, because all you can think of is that silly old man who shakes a lot in his mansion and yells at his kids all day to take the dogs out more.

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

- second, and most germane to this thread is that it allows one to be both a bread-and-butter musician and an original creative talent. What's wrong with riffing on more accessible stuff that people can actually warm up to - it doesn't have to be sellout pop; there's a million forms of music out there that people *do* like - in order to actually pay some bills, while working on your personal muse the rest of the time. This is a formula that has worked for millions of musicians out there.

Nothing wrong with that at all. I consciously write a song here and there that is absolutely as simple and catchy as possible, even *gasp* danceable. While I don't agree with going so far as to have the... music that pays the bills, and the music that YOU enjoy working on... that's fine if you're a composer for film or tv... but if you're trying to create music that's purpose is to be an artistic expression of yourself this is a really questionable way of approaching the whole thing. The point I'm trying to get across to the OP is that, even if you think you're music is too weird, if it's done well, and sincere, it'll have an audience. Look at Frank Zappa.... the guy had a really long and successful career (from the mid 1960s to his death in the 90s, and even posthumously has been raking in the cash through ventures such as "zappa plays zappa" with his son). Even after going totally independent and having to pay for all of his ventures with his own money he had enough left over to throw around. Go watch one of his dvds.... pretty...small crowd *sarcasm*...eh? What I'm saying is... there's always an audience for really well put together meaningful music. If it means something to you beyond that of just "I made it", chances are, it probably means something to someone else as well.

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

- third is that the wider one's appreciation of music, the more they'll understand that there's a reason why some stuff is considered avant-garde or underground, or whatever. It's just plain not easily accessible to or outside of popular taste. To be the next Tangerine Dream or Anal C**ts or Yoko Ono and to expect to have the success of Lyle Lovett or Coldplay or John Lennon is just plain unrealistic - and to expect your label's A&R guy to think otherwise is even more unrealistic. Wanna be the next angry young Anal Tangerine Ono Band? Knock yourself out! Find your niche. Wanna make a living to buy the house next to Bruce Springsteen'swith that act? Fuggedaboudit. You may be able to make a living, but it'll never be a huge one.

What's wrong with Avant-garde? To use the Zappa reference again. They played to huge sold out crowds around the world. They have documentaries about them. There are statues in some european cities dedicated to zappa. John Lennon AND Yoko Ono appear on some of his material. He always had enough money to hire full symphonic orchestras to play on half the albums that were done. He did annual MTV sponsored halloween shows to monster sized crowds. He's been dead for over 10 years now, and in going to the Zappa Plays Zappa tour shows... not even being the guy himself (his son), the places are sold out, filled with thousands upon thousands of diehard fans. Not so underground. It's the harder road by far! It's much easier to get a bit of moderate success by strictly doing what you think people want to hear, but there isn't much of a future in that mode of thought. You could be like brittany spears or something of that nature, and you'll be huge... but how huge do you need to be? Do you want to be known for your music, or for the media circus that follows you everywhere you go until you go batshit crazy.
[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

And want to do more.

A true lover of music doesn't think that it's his way or the highway, but rather enjoys and explores music thats all over the map. That doesn't mean that one has to like Miley Cyrus and the Beatles, but it does mean that one can enjoy performing music other than what their original muse inspires.

That was pretty much the point I was trying to get across as well. He makes really varied music and was worried about having to limit it to one single style. So, you're kind of preaching to the choir. As I said in my previous post, my latest full time project is a mish mash of a lot of different ideas genres styles etc... If anything, I'm encouraging him to do exactly what you said...do whatever comes to mind, regardless of how "absurd" it seems. However, I must say... always do things how your gut tells you.. if it's not sincere people will be able to unconsciously tell.. once it's not the fad any more you might as well be the new kids on the block. What's wrong with only doing music that is meaningful as an artistic expression? (in no way am I encouraging sticking to one single style of music or idea... explore them all... have fun with music... play with it, destroy it, change it, form it, mold it to your will... that's more on what I'm talking about)

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

This opens up three things:

- first it opens up ones musical experience and exposure to different musical ideas, which can only add positive influence to one's original compositions and performances.

Absolutely. I can't argue with that. The more styles of music I've done, personally, the more satisfied i've been with my compositions. There are other projects... More what I was speaking about is how to handle such diversity in one single project and still keep a sense of consistency. An example of this done badly is for instance when Ozzy started doing the whole reality show thing. It was completely inconsistent with the persona that he worked to build for himself over the past several decades. Now, we all know Ozzy as a raving old man who stutters a lot and mumbles all the time with bratty spoiled brat kids and can't figure out how to use the TV remote. Not to say Ozzy doesn't kick ass musically... but it taints his musical expression a bit, because all you can think of is that silly old man who shakes a lot in his mansion and yells at his kids all day to take the dogs out more.

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

- second, and most germane to this thread is that it allows one to be both a bread-and-butter musician and an original creative talent. What's wrong with riffing on more accessible stuff that people can actually warm up to - it doesn't have to be sellout pop; there's a million forms of music out there that people *do* like - in order to actually pay some bills, while working on your personal muse the rest of the time. This is a formula that has worked for millions of musicians out there.

Nothing wrong with that at all. I consciously write a song here and there that is absolutely as simple and catchy as possible, even *gasp* danceable. While I don't agree with going so far as to have the... music that pays the bills, and the music that YOU enjoy working on... that's fine if you're a composer for film or tv... but if you're trying to create music that's purpose is to be an artistic expression of yourself this is a really questionable way of approaching the whole thing. The point I'm trying to get across to the OP is that, even if you think you're music is too weird, if it's done well, and sincere, it'll have an audience. Look at Frank Zappa.... the guy had a really long and successful career (from the mid 1960s to his death in the 90s, and even posthumously has been raking in the cash through ventures such as "zappa plays zappa" with his son). Even after going totally independent and having to pay for all of his ventures with his own money he had enough left over to throw around. Go watch one of his dvds.... pretty...small crowd *sarcasm*...eh? What I'm saying is... there's always an audience for really well put together meaningful music. If it means something to you beyond that of just "I made it", chances are, it probably means something to someone else as well.

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

That's not anyone's "fault". That's life. That's how the universe is put together.

G.

The universe is put together with John Lennon and Lyle Lovett? I'd better start phoning some prominent scientific minds. They've got it all wrong.

[TerraMortim]

Originally Posted by bardo

Pop+o=poop!

pop+o= popo. That sounds like a cute cuddly little stuffed bear.